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The Queen of Europe (Politics)

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 30 Jun 17 2.42pm

Originally posted by Hansy

Thanks for that. Shows a different culture up in Northern Ireland. People are still voting for them, so the public must have similar views also.

Ireland now has a homosexual President so hopefully the view in that area will change now.

I suspect its more that people are somewhat afraid of what happens if they stop voting for them. After all, if Sinn Fein and the DUP lose relevance, what would their supporters do - pack up and accept their lot as being a historical relic of NI Politics. Both parties represent a very 'militant political view' and members.

And people are drawn onto that. If you're in a strong Republican area, you vote Sinn Fien, Protestant DUP - because maybe you realise that if you don't, they'll return to older ways.

Plus I think you have generations of people who aren't ever going to admit that they were wrong (both Green and Orange) or that their time has passed - and both parties seem to realise that, and spend so much of their political capital simply opposing the other side.

 


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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 30 Jun 17 2.50pm

Originally posted by Hansy

The thing is, if the public were not interested they wouldn't vote for them. But the country is still very split in terms of being part of the UK and being part of Ireland. The politicians there will continue this until they are being run from Westminster or united with Ireland


Edited by Hansy (30 Jun 2017 2.22pm)

Thing is, its not. Most people you'll meet from Northern Ireland are more concerned about real things like wages, jobs, infrastructure, health care, education first and foremost. Its the two main parties that are primarily focused on nonsense like the Irish Language, or which flag should fly on the first flag pole above Stormont.

Also when you look outside their General election, the distribution of power in civic institutions such as council is a lot broader.

Notably a lot of political parties have a tradition of not standing in NI National Elections (Labour, Conservative and Liberal Democrats). When you look at the parties at general elections, probably the first major party that isn't tied to 'the politics of the troubles' are the Green Party.

Problem is, that NI has democracy in principle, but its political parties aren't interested in representation of the constituents, they're interested in their own political power games.

 


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Hansy Flag 30 Jun 17 3.00pm Send a Private Message to Hansy Add Hansy as a friend

Maybe those parties like the Tories, Labour etc think being involved will go against the good frieday agreement? (I haven't looked too much into it, but isn't it about allowing the NI people to have a choice between Ireland and the UK?). Having a British party there, would seem as though we are meddling with their politics. Or it would allow Sinn Fein to gain power and push through a move to unite Ireland, as those that mainly vote Sinn Fein will want that anyway and a Brit party would only really be taking votes away from the DUP.

I don't know, their politics is a head ache.

 

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legaleagle Flag 30 Jun 17 8.57pm

Interesting take on Merkel from the Washington Post...

[Link]

 

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hedgehog50 Flag Croydon 30 Jun 17 9.53pm

Loving this thread. The left having to make excuses for people they approve of saying things that they don't approve of. Similar to when Eric Clapton made racist statements and David Bowie called for a Fascist government. Also, of course their excuses for the various extreme ideas of the Islamic faith in regard to sexual matters.

 


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the_mcanuff_stuff Flag Caterham 30 Jun 17 10.13pm Send a Private Message to the_mcanuff_stuff Add the_mcanuff_stuff as a friend

I'm no fan of Merkel, but to compare her to the DUP is just stupid. She personally voted against same sex marriage, but allowed a free vote, which resulted in it passing. The same could never be imagined in NI at the current time. They are adamant that abortion should not be allowed, even in cases of rape or incest. That is a million miles (and about 50 years) away from Germany and even Merkel herself in terms of "progressiveness".

 

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corkery Flag Cork City 30 Jun 17 10.15pm Send a Private Message to corkery Add corkery as a friend

That's a bit unfair comparing Merkel to the DUP. Germany gave up their Nazi beliefs, the DUP hasn't.

 


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the_mcanuff_stuff Flag Caterham 30 Jun 17 10.15pm Send a Private Message to the_mcanuff_stuff Add the_mcanuff_stuff as a friend

Originally posted by hedgehog50

Loving this thread. The left having to make excuses for people they approve of saying things that they don't approve of. Similar to when Eric Clapton made racist statements and David Bowie called for a Fascist government. Also, of course their excuses for the various extreme ideas of the Islamic faith in regard to sexual matters.

Why would the left make excuses for Merkel? She is a clear right winger, the leader of Europes biggest right wing party.

Though I agree that the left do make excuses sometimes in the way you say. You can add Morrisey to that list.

 

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wordup Flag 30 Jun 17 11.05pm

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

I suspect its more that people are somewhat afraid of what happens if they stop voting for them. After all, if Sinn Fein and the DUP lose relevance, what would their supporters do - pack up and accept their lot as being a historical relic of NI Politics. Both parties represent a very 'militant political view' and members.

And people are drawn onto that. If you're in a strong Republican area, you vote Sinn Fien, Protestant DUP - because maybe you realise that if you don't, they'll return to older ways.

Plus I think you have generations of people who aren't ever going to admit that they were wrong (both Green and Orange) or that their time has passed - and both parties seem to realise that, and spend so much of their political capital simply opposing the other side.

Exactly, for many they're the only show in town and it certainly doesn't indicate that the public agree with their stance of gay marriage. All indications are that the NI public would support it given a referendum. In addition, same sex marriage passed a Northern Ireland Assembly vote, but was vetoed by the DUP. This matter has little to do with the will of the people and everything to do with the will of the DUP.

 

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legaleagle Flag 30 Jun 17 11.38pm

Originally posted by the_mcanuff_stuff

Why would the left make excuses for Merkel? She is a clear right winger, the leader of Europes biggest right wing party.

Though I agree that the left do make excuses sometimes in the way you say. You can add Morrisey to that list.

Precisely;only a poster as tunnel visioned as Hedgie could assume "the left" see Merkel as their poster person

 

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Stirlingsays Flag 01 Jul 17 4.52am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Entirely disagree with her, but the DUP are part of the UK political scene, and sit in my parliament with their Religious nonsense politics that attempt to restrict the rights of ordinary British citizens in line with their god bothering drivel.

Every citizen, should have the same legal rights as every other citizen.

I'm not religious but certain aspects of the 'gay' marriage legal change annoyed me. If I had been forced to vote on it I would have still voted for it but with reservations.....it's annoying that if you have reservations...some people call you names...but that's for them.

I do believe that the original term referred to a man and woman. I found the easy adoption and adapting annoying....As I do with most language changes.

When civil partnerships were bought in the opposition said that this was a slippery slope to marriage. That was denied but they were in fact a hundred percent correct.

Small fry really....To have voted 'no' on gay marriage (once religious protections were accounted for) would have sent out the wrong message.

 


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Stirlingsays Flag 01 Jul 17 4.55am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by legaleagle

Precisely;only a poster as tunnel visioned as Hedgie could assume "the left" see Merkel as their poster person

Yep, I think to be fair it's more a EU supporter thing. As Ken Clarke shows it's a generalisation when we go into left/right.....Not saying that there isn't an amount of truth to it...just that it's a difficult fit as a description.

Plenty of people on the left have issues with the EU....Some long standing, as with Corbyn.

Edited by Stirlingsays (01 Jul 2017 4.56am)

 


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