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Ginger Pubic Wig Wickham de L'Ouest 22 Mar 17 6.31pm | |
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I'll take a punt and say that we'll have added 35m to operating expenses (player amortisation & higher wages) and the better TV deal will lift revenue up by about 25m. So I'm saying we must be on course for revenue and open of 130m. But this isn't my domain so hopefully someone else can make a more educated guess. If I have it right then surely a major sale or 2 will be in the offing this summer. PS thanks for linking to the document
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Midlands Eagle 22 Mar 17 7.40pm | |
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Originally posted by Ginger Pubic Wig
But this isn't my domain so hopefully someone else can make a more educated guess. It's very difficult to predict as the profit and loss of a football club isn't quite as black and white as in a manufacturing industry and there will be a certain element of "how much profit would you like to make" involved. Post these accounts Bolasie was sold and the whole of his sale price will be brought into profit whereas our expensive purchases will be amortised over three or four years depending on the length of their contracts.
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Ginger Pubic Wig Wickham de L'Ouest 22 Mar 17 9.36pm | |
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Originally posted by Midlands Eagle
It's very difficult to predict as the profit and loss of a football club isn't quite as black and white as in a manufacturing industry and there will be a certain element of "how much profit would you like to make" involved. Post these accounts Bolasie was sold and the whole of his sale price will be brought into profit whereas our expensive purchases will be amortised over three or four years depending on the length of their contracts. Well we know the net outlay of the summer window was 12 (cos they say so) and the net outlay of the Jan window was circa 36 if media reporting is vaguely accurate. So let's say 48m and maybe 15m in net wage growth. I just don't know how the transfer fees would be amortised. BTW I'm not that bothered by profit or loss. More FFP compliance and how big the pressure will be -- if at all -- to flog Wilf
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robdave2k 22 Mar 17 10.18pm | |
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Originally posted by Midlands Eagle
Of course but the point that I was making was that the accounts gave much more detail than required by law No they don't. They give everything requuued by law. They don't include a detailed profit and loss, so have removed what has not got to be disclosed.
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Midlands Eagle 23 Mar 17 6.37am | |
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Originally posted by Ginger Pubic Wig
Well we know the net outlay of the summer window was 12 (cos they say so) and the net outlay of the Jan window was circa 36 if media reporting is vaguely accurate. So let's say 48m and maybe 15m in net wage growth. I just don't know how the transfer fees would be amortised. BTW I'm not that bothered by profit or loss. More FFP compliance and how big the pressure will be -- if at all -- to flog Wilf The net outlay of 12 won't be in accounting terms. Say Benteke was signed for £28 on a four year deal. That will be a cost of £7m a year for the next four years (plus wages etc) Bolasie's cost was probably fully amortised so the whole of his sale price can be brought into profit. FFP will be based on profitability so the more profits shown the better off we will be in FFP terms and if we flog Wilf I doubt whether it will be in order to make more profit but it will be because of pressure from the player to go or else in the unlikely event that Sam doesn't want him any more
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Ginger Pubic Wig Wickham de L'Ouest 23 Mar 17 6.57am | |
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Originally posted by Midlands Eagle
The net outlay of 12 won't be in accounting terms. Say Benteke was signed for £28 on a four year deal. That will be a cost of £7m a year for the next four years (plus wages etc) Bolasie's cost was probably fully amortised so the whole of his sale price can be brought into profit. FFP will be based on profitability so the more profits shown the better off we will be in FFP terms and if we flog Wilf I doubt whether it will be in order to make more profit but it will be because of pressure from the player to go or else in the unlikely event that Sam doesn't want him any more I thought FFP had something about player costs (transfer fees and wages) as a proportion of turnover. Am I wrong? I guess ultimately it's the same thing but not for individual seasons. Am I wrong?
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Midlands Eagle 23 Mar 17 9.54am | |
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Originally posted by Ginger Pubic Wig
I thought FFP had something about player costs (transfer fees and wages) as a proportion of turnover. Am I wrong? I guess ultimately it's the same thing but not for individual seasons. Am I wrong? It's quite complicated but clubs can increase their wage cap if they generate increased revenue from commercial income, player trading and Match Day income so all profits from selling players will help Full explanation here [Link]
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Ginger Pubic Wig Wickham de L'Ouest 23 Mar 17 11.00am | |
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Thanks ME. The way I read that link -- and the accounts -- we need to raise at least a net 30m in the summer if we stay up. Probably more. I would dearly LOVE somebody to tell me -- with hard facts -- why I've got that all massively wrong. I know some folks on here have a proper grasp of this s*** so come on...out you come. Explain to us plebs
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OknotOK Cockfosters, London 23 Mar 17 12.04pm | |
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Summer outlay of £50m plus January outlay of c. £30m. Assuming all have 4 year contracts would mean increasing amortisation by £20m pa (although January purchases will only have 6 months in the next year accounts). Similarly the above purchases will probably see wages increase by c. £300k a week (at a guess) less the reduction for those let go (Jedi, Bolasie, Hangeland etc), so say net increase of £200k a week = £10.4m (again January purchases will only have 6 month impact). Broadcasting revenue increase will depend upon where we finish. £78m in last year so finishing 16th would see an increase of c. £27m to £105m. We would book the majority of the £40m income from last summer sales into next years account. So we could see an accounting profit increase of up to £40m on that basis. But it is very hard to get right
"It's almost like a moral decision. Except not really cos noone is going to find out," Jez, Peep Show |
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Rudi Hedman Caterham 23 Mar 17 12.29pm | |
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Yes the way I read the new FFP situation is as long as you adhere to it you'll make a profit if you stay up before increasing expenditure on infrastructure, academies, stadia, scouting etc. It's when you go down that you can see it evaporate or be used to bounce back up. I think we made a profit in prem seasons 1, 3 and 4 and broke even in season 2. There must be a decent sum building up with that and the American £50 mil to get Sainsburys to add to the Warlingham and Redhill modernised supermarkets and do something about the row of houses by the Clifton.
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Ginger Pubic Wig Wickham de L'Ouest 23 Mar 17 2.15pm | |
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Originally posted by OknotOK
Summer outlay of £50m plus January outlay of c. £30m. Assuming all have 4 year contracts would mean increasing amortisation by £20m pa (although January purchases will only have 6 months in the next year accounts). Similarly the above purchases will probably see wages increase by c. £300k a week (at a guess) less the reduction for those let go (Jedi, Bolasie, Hangeland etc), so say net increase of £200k a week = £10.4m (again January purchases will only have 6 month impact). Broadcasting revenue increase will depend upon where we finish. £78m in last year so finishing 16th would see an increase of c. £27m to £105m. We would book the majority of the £40m income from last summer sales into next years account. So we could see an accounting profit increase of up to £40m on that basis. But it is very hard to get right Interesting explanation, thank you. However the link about FFP that Midlands Eagle posted up said that ``clubs will be able to increase their wage spend by £7m each season from 2016/17 to 2018/19''. Surely we've gone way above that? And do wages mean just wages, or does it mean wages PLUS amortization of transfer fees? Cos if it were the latter... (Assuming some random geezer of the internet is right, which may be an insane thing to do -- but the website does seem genuine and intelligent). Rudi -- the accounts that were posted didn't paint a picture of a very profitable season. What am I misunderstanding (not being snarky or clever, genuinely interested but lacking the knowledge myself)?
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OknotOK Cockfosters, London 23 Mar 17 2.34pm | |
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Originally posted by Ginger Pubic Wig
Interesting explanation, thank you. However the link about FFP that Midlands Eagle posted up said that ``clubs will be able to increase their wage spend by £7m each season from 2016/17 to 2018/19''. Surely we've gone way above that? And do wages mean just wages, or does it mean wages PLUS amortization of transfer fees? Cos if it were the latter... (Assuming some random geezer of the internet is right, which may be an insane thing to do -- but the website does seem genuine and intelligent). Rudi -- the accounts that were posted didn't paint a picture of a very profitable season. What am I misunderstanding (not being snarky or clever, genuinely interested but lacking the knowledge myself)? Wages does just seem wages and yes I have seen the £7m annual figure as well. I think there is an additional allowance based upon increasing commercial or match day income and possibly if you can inject further capital. If my numbers are even close to right then we would need to get rid of another £40k of wages off the weekly wage bill to have only(!) increased by £7m. But it would all be speculation about how much individual players are on (and assumes others didn't get rises). Edited by OknotOK (23 Mar 2017 2.34pm)
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