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jamiemartin721 Reading 11 Jan 17 9.44am | |
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Originally posted by Farawayeagle
He was elected In Forty years watching politics in the U.K. Japan the U.S. Hilary lost Er, not really, if a foreign power directly acted to influence an election through espionage, its a big f**king thing, that's far bigger than Trump or Clinton - Its supposed to be a democracy, anykind of election tampering or subversion is a massive issue, let alone influence by a global power that is a direct rival. And any relationship between the winner and that foreign power is a significant concern. Its notable that Trump was very happy to speculate on how the election would be rigged against him, but then when actual evidence of potential tampering and subversion is presented, its 'not a thing'. Sure for some idiots, this is about Clinton lost. But in truth, for any democracy the sanctity of the democratic election process is central to trust and representation. Now that doesn't mean Trump is responsible or guilty, but the problem doesn't just go away if you do not confront it.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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Part Time James 11 Jan 17 9.49am | |
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Originally posted by matt_himself
The story is from Buzzfeed, according to that Mirror story, which makes you think a heck of a lot of people want this to be true, rather than it is true. Exactly this for me as well. Some lefties have said to me "how can you laugh about something like this if you didn't really care much either way?" and my answer has to be that I don't truly believe he is going to be, or at least be able to be, the catastrophe that's being predicted. I also think there is a not so subtle distinction between the phrase "Trump controls the Senate and Representatives" and "The Republicans have majority control of the Senate and Representatives" and on that basis I feel that it's ok to laugh!
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Y Ddraig Goch In The Crowd 11 Jan 17 9.51am | |
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Originally posted by Part Time James
Exactly this for me as well. Some lefties have said to me "how can you laugh about something like this if you didn't really care much either way?" and my answer has to be that I don't truly believe he is going to be, or at least be able to be, the catastrophe that's being predicted. I also think there is a not so subtle distinction between the phrase "Trump controls the Senate and Representatives" and "The Republicans have majority control of the Senate and Representatives" and on that basis I feel that it's ok to laugh!
He also has incredibly thin skin and he needs to stop overreacting to every little barb. Not a good quality to have in a man leading the western world.
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OknotOK Cockfosters, London 11 Jan 17 9.53am | |
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If given the chance to govern then I don't think he will be a disaster. Even if he wanted to do some outlandish - and potentially disastrous - things, there are too many obstacles. But scandals - he is going to throw up loads of them. And this appears to be a genuine story. Whether there has been genuine correspondence between Trump and Putin, whether Putin did interfere in the election to favour Trump, I guess we'll have to wait and see. But there is clearly evidence out there to support the theory.
"It's almost like a moral decision. Except not really cos noone is going to find out," Jez, Peep Show |
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Part Time James 11 Jan 17 10.03am | |
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Originally posted by Y Ddraig Goch
He also has incredibly thin skin and he needs to stop overreacting to every little barb. Not a good quality to have in a man leading the western world. Don't get me wrong, I don't really even like Trump. I don't like Clinton either. I didn't really care a huge amount about American politics, which I do concede is a bit blinkered of me. And also, I don't want to suggest for one second that lefties (a term I ought not to be using having previously poo-pooed the idea of left and right wing politics, but I have now for convenience) are spouting a load of nonsense about what will happen to the world with Trump in charge. But the ones that are are the ones I am laughing at, not people that feel perhaps a little cautious or worried (which sounds like the camp you fall into). I am having a proper old chuckle at the headless chicken reaction of some of the more OTT liberal knicker wetters that's all.
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topcat Holmesdale / Surbiton 11 Jan 17 10.16am | |
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Not sure why people feel that it is only lefties that are getting worried about Trump. The Americans I know are very worried and I wouldn't class any of them as lefties. If Putin really did do something to help Trump get elected as President it is right to ask why, isn't it?
It's 106 miles to Chicago, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark... and we're wearing sunglasses. |
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Part Time James 11 Jan 17 10.21am | |
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Originally posted by topcat
Not sure why people feel that it is only lefties that are getting worried about Trump. The Americans I know are very worried and I wouldn't class any of them as lefties. If Putin really did do something to help Trump get elected as President it is right to ask why, isn't it? A good point, but I think it's because mainstream media seem to want to paint every single issue with a left-wing/right-wing brush these days, but actually, some things just aren't left vs right issues. I'm not entirely sure of the motives, but it's making having an opinion on something a very tribal affair lately!
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Cucking Funt Clapham on the Back 11 Jan 17 11.29am | |
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Originally posted by topcat
Not sure why people feel that it is only lefties that are getting worried about Trump. The Americans I know are very worried and I wouldn't class any of them as lefties. If Putin really did do something to help Trump get elected as President it is right to ask why, isn't it? If he really did, sure, but there's no evidence to suggest that.
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Hrolf The Ganger 11 Jan 17 11.44am | |
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Originally posted by topcat
Not sure why people feel that it is only lefties that are getting worried about Trump. The Americans I know are very worried and I wouldn't class any of them as lefties. If Putin really did do something to help Trump get elected as President it is right to ask why, isn't it? It's all a symptom of the liberal/entitlement generation.
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OknotOK Cockfosters, London 11 Jan 17 11.57am | |
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Originally posted by Cucking Funt
If he really did, sure, but there's no evidence to suggest that. There's no concrete proof, but the FBI believe they do have evidence that it was state-sponsored Russian hacks that led to the handing over of the email data to Wikileaks. So actually there is evidence to suggest that.
"It's almost like a moral decision. Except not really cos noone is going to find out," Jez, Peep Show |
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jamiemartin721 Reading 11 Jan 17 12.04pm | |
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Originally posted by Cucking Funt
If he really did, sure, but there's no evidence to suggest that. Well the intelligence services of the US, believe that the Russian security services were involved in the hack and provision of material to wiki leaks of the Clinton Emails, which was timed to affect the election. It also seems that Russian hackers were trying to penetrate the security around electronic voting machines. Bear in mind, that potentially if an American was involved in that hack, its an act of treason by US standards. Of course that doesn't mean that Trump was involved or conspired, that would need to be proven. Similarly for anyone in his campaign. I don't see why people think this should be about Trump or Clinton, its about far more important issues. Things like this must transcend partisan political divides. They're more important than whether your democrat / republican / nutbar fringe fridge door.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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jamiemartin721 Reading 11 Jan 17 12.10pm | |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
It's all a symptom of the liberal/entitlement generation. No its about the integrity of the democratic process, which is effectively the entire basis of a democratic nation and it should be investigated as such. Painting it as 'upset lefties', 'liberal entitlement' etc deflects from the gravity of a foreign national government directly influencing an election in another country (through a serious criminal act). I fail to understand how people, democrat, liberal, republican or otherwise, can see this in a partisan light. In order for democracy to work, trust and integrity in the process of elections is utterly vital. Even if that means having to investigate the president elect (and the opposition).
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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