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Aleppo
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 chris123  hove actually 18 Dec 16 8.28am |
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Originally posted by matt_himself
All of this 'it is our fault' for continued bloodshed and instability in the Middle East is hand wringing, self hating, pomposity. The fact is that there are plenty of examples of countries that have flourished following independence and a slew that have wasted the opportunity. The Middle East is a particularly mute point. How come Israel developed quickly into an oasis of democracy in an otherwise desert of domestic oppression? Israel was in 1948 a s*** hole. Now it is flourishing. Others in the region, who have received significant aid from the West, are still stuck in a a cycle of self recrimination, violence and blame-the-west. The irony for me is that the Middle East was at the forefront of trade, civic development and science in the Middle Ages yet has allowed itself to sink into being a pre-historic bloodbath. Any idea how much the US pumps into Israel each year?
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| matt_himself Matataland 18 Dec 16 9.03am |
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Originally posted by chris123
Any idea how much the US pumps into Israel each year? I do understand that the US aids Israel but aid has gone to other countries in the region, a veritable 'Money Pit'. Billions went to Iraq, Afghanistan and others. My point is that you can spunk money left, right and centre on aid but there has to be a desire of self determination and improvement. It appears that only Israel in the region has taken the opportunity.
"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02 |
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| chris123 hove actually 18 Dec 16 9.35am |
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Originally posted by matt_himself
I do understand that the US aids Israel but aid has gone to other countries in the region, a veritable 'Money Pit'. Billions went to Iraq, Afghanistan and others. My point is that you can spunk money left, right and centre on aid but there has to be a desire of self determination and improvement. It appears that only Israel in the region has taken the opportunity. Yes, but US aid into Israel also allows for some degree of influence and has done since the 1960's.
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| matt_himself Matataland 18 Dec 16 10.07am |
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Originally posted by chris123
Yes, but US aid into Israel also allows for some degree of influence and has done since the 1960's. What do you mean by influence? US having the ability to influence Israel because of aid? Israel having influence over the region? If it is the former, then aid comes with strngs, reapgardless of whom the recipient is, therefore don't understand how that would be for Israel compared with any other country.
"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02 |
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| chris123 hove actually 18 Dec 16 11.01am |
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Originally posted by matt_himself
What do you mean by influence? US having the ability to influence Israel because of aid? Israel having influence over the region? If it is the former, then aid comes with strngs, reapgardless of whom the recipient is, therefore don't understand how that would be for Israel compared with any other country. There is little stability in the region and the US relies on Israel as the only dependable ally in the Middle East - so strategic, intelligence, national security, military procurement.
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| matt_himself Matataland 18 Dec 16 1.00pm |
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Originally posted by chris123
There is little stability in the region and the US relies on Israel as the only dependable ally in the Middle East - so strategic, intelligence, national security, military procurement. Fully and understand and agree with you. What is your point?
"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02 |
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 Cucking Funt Clapham on the Back 18 Dec 16 1.44pm |
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These are the people that, apparently, we should be 'supporting'.
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| Sportyteacher London 18 Dec 16 1.50pm |
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Originally posted by Cucking Funt
These are the people that, apparently, we should be 'supporting'. I'm with you. This latest development for me has crossed the line for sure. Whilst the international community and UN have evidently stopped for their XMAS hols, the situation within Aleppo is ever worsening upon much deeper levels of depravity. In the name of humanitarianism, it is time for morally right-thinking Govt of the world to wake up and smell the coffee.
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| matt_himself Matataland 18 Dec 16 1.52pm |
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Originally posted by Cucking Funt
These are the people that, apparently, we should be 'supporting'. Savages.
"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02 |
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| chris123 hove actually 18 Dec 16 3.02pm |
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Originally posted by matt_himself
Fully and understand and agree with you. What is your point? I was responding to your point about how the state of Israel had developed - my point - hugely funded.
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| matt_himself Matataland 18 Dec 16 7.30pm |
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Originally posted by chris123
I was responding to your point about how the state of Israel had developed - my point - hugely funded. I said the same but that the desire of the people of Israel to create a thriving democracy was key.
"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02 |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 19 Dec 16 10.11am |
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Originally posted by Cucking Funt
Intervening to unseat unpopular and despotic tyrants in the Middle East hasn't exactly worked out well in the past. Just exchanging a brutal dictatorship for anarchy and confusion, with similar death tolls. I don't really see how intervening changes anything, other than creating further instability in an already volatile region. Quite, and intervening in the Syrian civil war would have been a disaster waiting to escalate, given its a client state of the Russians. Realistically, as far as the west was concerned, the best outcome, politically, would be for the Assad regime to win the civil war (especially given the nature of the relationship between the insurgency in Iraq and Syrian rebel forces across the border - which would grow into IS). Problem tends to be that people think that there is a good side, and a bad side in a civil war (or war for that matter). There tends rather to be the side you need to win, and the other side who'll kill you if you lose.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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