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'Growing racial segregation'

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Barely Eagle Flag London 02 Nov 16 12.39pm Send a Private Message to Barely Eagle Add Barely Eagle as a friend

Sure, off the top of my head...

- the cultural output of the UK is recognised world wide, everything from music to cuisine. Our culture is a mirror of the societal make-up of this county. Our cultural and creative industries are worth billions to the uk each year.

- our sporting successes are often attributable to people lie Mo Farah and Jessica Ennis - people who would not be here if we were 100% WASP (like we might have been about 400 years ago). This directly influences the pride we take in ourselves as a nation.

- the NHS would be (even more) on it's knees

- crucially, despite problems that i'm not shying away from, we are streets ahead of almost any nation in terms of racial harmony and integration. Can you honestly say you'd be happy to hear monkey chants and banana chucking at Selhurst every other week? This is still a real thing in many other nations.

Your mileage may vary.

 

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paperhat Flag croydon 02 Nov 16 12.58pm Send a Private Message to paperhat Add paperhat as a friend

Originally posted by Barely Eagle

Disagree completely.

This country is a great example of integrating and assimilating people from other cultures.

nope, that was the Borg in Star Trek.

 


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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 02 Nov 16 1.01pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by Barely Eagle

Sure, off the top of my head...

- the cultural output of the UK is recognised world wide, everything from music to cuisine. Our culture is a mirror of the societal make-up of this county. Our cultural and creative industries are worth billions to the uk each year.

- our sporting successes are often attributable to people lie Mo Farah and Jessica Ennis - people who would not be here if we were 100% WASP (like we might have been about 400 years ago). This directly influences the pride we take in ourselves as a nation.

- the NHS would be (even more) on it's knees

- crucially, despite problems that i'm not shying away from, we are streets ahead of almost any nation in terms of racial harmony and integration. Can you honestly say you'd be happy to hear monkey chants and banana chucking at Selhurst every other week? This is still a real thing in many other nations.

Your mileage may vary.


I get where you are coming from, I really do, but our food and sporting achievements are hardly a top priority in the grand scheme of things. The NHS would not be on it's knees if successive governments had invested in training and wages of people born here rather than taking the cheap option and looking abroad.

As for monkey chants. They are just one of a multitude of problems which we have had or now have that we didn't before the rise of multi culture.

This is a question of perspective and or self interest and only that.

 

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Barely Eagle Flag London 02 Nov 16 1.02pm Send a Private Message to Barely Eagle Add Barely Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by paperhat

nope, that was the Borg in Star Trek.

Sorry mate, don't get the reference, if there's one minority group I can't tolerate, it's Trekkies ;-)

 

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 02 Nov 16 1.05pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by Barely Eagle

Sorry mate, don't get the reference, if there's one minority group I can't tolerate, it's Trekkies ;-)

Trekist.

I'm contacting Star Fleet Command immediately.

 

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 02 Nov 16 1.22pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Mixing cultures has been disastrous whenever it has happened and yet the powers that be decided that it would be a good idea for Britain. The same type of people who got us into Two World Wars and endless other conflicts while they all lived wealthy detached lives.

Has it actually been disastrous for the UK. Short term there usually has been some phase of 'disturbance' but realistically the 60s, 70s and 80s all saw large migrations into the UK, without any real problems (and a lot of areas of the UK and UK culture in general benefitted from such migration).

In truth the West Indian, Indian, Banglideshi, Common Wealth and pakistani migrations largely just p*ssed off racists who's issue was more about agenda than reality.

The problem in more recent years hasn't been the migration per se, but the scale of temporary migration, which is a very different situation. When you're talking about adding 300k people per year to the population, and upwards of 500k new people per year - its a problem.

There is a difference when the view is short term working migration to long term migration both in terms in terms of integration and cohesion. Long term migration tends to promote increasing, if gradual, integration, across generations. Short term migration doesn't, as the intention is to return home, rather than to make a new home.

Its very hard to look at the Indian migration into the London and South East, and not consider it a major success (especially if you experienced the impact it had on towns like Reading in terms of creating a better community).

 


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Barely Eagle Flag London 02 Nov 16 2.03pm Send a Private Message to Barely Eagle Add Barely Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger


As for monkey chants. They are just one of a multitude of problems which we have had or now have that we didn't before the rise of multi culture.

This is a question of perspective and or self interest and only that.


Not trying to be inflammatory here, so please take this as a point of discussion, but do you think the rise of multiculturalism is really an option, or an ultimate inevitability?

The speed and affordability of international travel, globalisation of business brought about by capitalism, displacement of populations through war and famine... all of these factors influence our current context, rather than simply a question of "Shall we go multi-cultural?". The world is changing, we don't all live sheltered, siloed existences any more, whether we like it, or not.

Thoughts?

Edited by Barely Eagle (02 Nov 2016 2.04pm)

 

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 02 Nov 16 2.57pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Has it actually been disastrous for the UK. Short term there usually has been some phase of 'disturbance' but realistically the 60s, 70s and 80s all saw large migrations into the UK, without any real problems (and a lot of areas of the UK and UK culture in general benefitted from such migration).

In truth the West Indian, Indian, Banglideshi, Common Wealth and pakistani migrations largely just p*ssed off racists who's issue was more about agenda than reality.

The problem in more recent years hasn't been the migration per se, but the scale of temporary migration, which is a very different situation. When you're talking about adding 300k people per year to the population, and upwards of 500k new people per year - its a problem.

There is a difference when the view is short term working migration to long term migration both in terms in terms of integration and cohesion. Long term migration tends to promote increasing, if gradual, integration, across generations. Short term migration doesn't, as the intention is to return home, rather than to make a new home.

Its very hard to look at the Indian migration into the London and South East, and not consider it a major success (especially if you experienced the impact it had on towns like Reading in terms of creating a better community).

I think that there are some positives to be found in virtually anything and you can point to them to make an argument. The same argument can be made in reverse of course so it a question of the balance. As a white person of a certain age,if you are asking me the question, I would say that Britain was far better before mass migration for many reasons. I am not adverse to a bit of diversity in an otherwise insular population but the pace of change has been far too fast and not selective enough.

The numbers are a big part of the problem for sure and it is ironic I suppose that the human capacity for intolerance and religious and cultural separatism is part of the the reason why I have a separatist view on this subject.

 

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 02 Nov 16 3.01pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by Barely Eagle


Not trying to be inflammatory here, so please take this as a point of discussion, but do you think the rise of multiculturalism is really an option, or an ultimate inevitability?

The speed and affordability of international travel, globalisation of business brought about by capitalism, displacement of populations through war and famine... all of these factors influence our current context, rather than simply a question of "Shall we go multi-cultural?". The world is changing, we don't all live sheltered, siloed existences any more, whether we like it, or not.

Thoughts?

Edited by Barely Eagle (02 Nov 2016 2.04pm)

A fair question but I would say that borders are borders and Britain is in a very good position to protect borders. Being an Island nation has many advantages and we are surrendering some of them in the name of greed. This might seem unimportant to some now but in the near future we will see the results of the world population explosion and the displacement of people that will result.

 

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 02 Nov 16 3.08pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

A fair question but I would say that borders are borders and Britain is in a very good position to protect borders. Being an Island nation has many advantages and we are surrendering some of them in the name of greed. This might seem unimportant to some now but in the near future we will see the results of the world population explosion and the displacement of people that will result.

Culture and immigration are related, only tangentially. There exist a number of cultures and subcultures, both complimentary and conflicting within the UK, to which migrants may contribute to, conflict with and introduce new concepts into.

However, its important to draw a distinction that the UK, even without migration, would consist of any number of different cultural concepts, groups and conflicting identities

There is no 'monoculture of Britishness', and the introduction of new ethnic groups and migrants, doesn't contribute a massive culture shift.

 


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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 02 Nov 16 3.14pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Culture and immigration are related, only tangentially. There exist a number of cultures and subcultures, both complimentary and conflicting within the UK, to which migrants may contribute to, conflict with and introduce new concepts into.

However, its important to draw a distinction that the UK, even without migration, would consist of any number of different cultural concepts, groups and conflicting identities

There is no 'monoculture of Britishness', and the introduction of new ethnic groups and migrants, doesn't contribute a massive culture shift.

I would agree but that is not an argument in favour of mass migration. It is merely confirmation that humans love to find ways to separate each other.

 

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matt_himself Flag Matataland 02 Nov 16 3.36pm Send a Private Message to matt_himself Add matt_himself as a friend

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Culture and immigration are related, only tangentially. There exist a number of cultures and subcultures, both complimentary and conflicting within the UK, to which migrants may contribute to, conflict with and introduce new concepts into.

However, its important to draw a distinction that the UK, even without migration, would consist of any number of different cultural concepts, groups and conflicting identities

There is no 'monoculture of Britishness', and the introduction of new ethnic groups and migrants, doesn't contribute a massive culture shift.

It would be more pertinent to the debate if you focused on the actual rather than the academic.

The fact is that there has been an unprecedented influx in migration - temporary or permanent, time will tell - and communities have been forced immigration upon them.

There has been no or little planning or assistance from the authorities with this.

This has been largely done for economic reasons, partly social engineering.

The fact is that the inaction of the authorities, or the unwillingness to address the issues mass immigration brings, has and is creating ghettos, social apartheid and resentment.

Whilst some people will be reluctant to integrate the bigger issue comes from lack of planning. Leaving communities to fend for themselves and dropping migrants in an unwelcoming environment.

Of course there will be effects from this

 


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