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Autism - ASD

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Midlands Eagle Flag 26 Feb 15 10.36am Send a Private Message to Midlands Eagle Add Midlands Eagle as a friend

Quote npn at 26 Feb 2015 9.19am

Quote nickgusset at 26 Feb 2015 9.02am

Quote npn at 26 Feb 2015 8.47am

Quote nickgusset at 25 Feb 2015 11.22pm

Quote johnfirewall at 25 Feb 2015 10.26pm

Google the author of the paper cited in that article. Got an unrelated PHD and previously tried to attribute autism to vaccines.

Also you could've plotted Palace's league position on those graphs and that would've been as relevant.

Edited by johnfirewall (25 Feb 2015 10.29pm)


I understand your point about the author, but what's the problem with the graph. It shows a 1 in 5000 prevalence in 1975 up to 1 in 68 in 2014. Are you saying this isn't the case? Sounds about right. Every class I've taught has had at least one kid (out of 30) with ASD.


I suspect the majority of that is just the labelling which is more common nowadays.

I never went to school (40 odd years ago) with any autistic kids or kids with ADHD, but certainly had "weird kids" and "naughty kids" in my classes.


Labelling or diagnosis?


Some from column A, some from column B.
I actually think it's a good thing in the vast majority of cases (to then provide the support these kids need) but I think there is also a certain amount of readiness to label.

I understand - you'll know far better than I (my wife's a TA who deals with a lot of 'challenging' kids and she explained it to me once, but I wasn't really listening!) that it's beneficial to the schools to have special needs kids either in terms of Ofsted grades or funding.

I'm fairly certain at least some of the kids I went to school with had genuine issues, and were largely failed by the education system through lack of diagnosis and help, however, I'm also sure there are a lot of parents and schools who would rather their kid had SEN than was just deemed to be a little sh!te.


I have no idea whether it is or isn't beneficial to the schools but they won't get additional funding without a diagnosis from outside health professionals.

I think that the reason that you and I plus others of our age groups didn't come across autism when we were at school was because it wasn't widely recognised in those days and kids were either just stupid or disruptive without anyone knowing (or caring) why

 

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npn Flag Crowborough 26 Feb 15 11.00am Send a Private Message to npn Add npn as a friend

Quote Ian J at 26 Feb 2015 10.36am

Quote npn at 26 Feb 2015 9.19am

Quote nickgusset at 26 Feb 2015 9.02am

Quote npn at 26 Feb 2015 8.47am

Quote nickgusset at 25 Feb 2015 11.22pm

Quote johnfirewall at 25 Feb 2015 10.26pm

Google the author of the paper cited in that article. Got an unrelated PHD and previously tried to attribute autism to vaccines.

Also you could've plotted Palace's league position on those graphs and that would've been as relevant.

Edited by johnfirewall (25 Feb 2015 10.29pm)


I understand your point about the author, but what's the problem with the graph. It shows a 1 in 5000 prevalence in 1975 up to 1 in 68 in 2014. Are you saying this isn't the case? Sounds about right. Every class I've taught has had at least one kid (out of 30) with ASD.


I suspect the majority of that is just the labelling which is more common nowadays.

I never went to school (40 odd years ago) with any autistic kids or kids with ADHD, but certainly had "weird kids" and "naughty kids" in my classes.


Labelling or diagnosis?


Some from column A, some from column B.
I actually think it's a good thing in the vast majority of cases (to then provide the support these kids need) but I think there is also a certain amount of readiness to label.

I understand - you'll know far better than I (my wife's a TA who deals with a lot of 'challenging' kids and she explained it to me once, but I wasn't really listening!) that it's beneficial to the schools to have special needs kids either in terms of Ofsted grades or funding.

I'm fairly certain at least some of the kids I went to school with had genuine issues, and were largely failed by the education system through lack of diagnosis and help, however, I'm also sure there are a lot of parents and schools who would rather their kid had SEN than was just deemed to be a little sh!te.


I have no idea whether it is or isn't beneficial to the schools but they won't get additional funding without a diagnosis from outside health professionals.

I think that the reason that you and I plus others of our age groups didn't come across autism when we were at school was because it wasn't widely recognised in those days and kids were either just stupid or disruptive without anyone knowing (or caring) why


First paragraph: agreed - I can't claim to wish I'd been listening, but I seem to recall Ofsted take note of how many SEN pupils a school has, and it has a bearing (I just can't rememebr why)

Second paragraph: agreed again, and the point I was trying to make (albeit less clearly than you). I suspect there are way more kids getting the help they need now that would, in the good old days, have spent most of their school days in the headmaster's office.

 

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Rubin Flag 26 Feb 15 11.03am Send a Private Message to Rubin Add Rubin as a friend

Quote Ian J at 26 Feb 2015 6.36am

Quote Rubin at 26 Feb 2015 3.19am

There's a lot of stuff on childhood vaccinations causing autism.

That was all discredited years ago


Doesn't mean much unfortunately.

 

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OknotOK Flag Cockfosters, London 26 Feb 15 11.15am Send a Private Message to OknotOK Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add OknotOK as a friend

Quote Rubin at 26 Feb 2015 11.03am

Quote Ian J at 26 Feb 2015 6.36am

Quote Rubin at 26 Feb 2015 3.19am

There's a lot of stuff on childhood vaccinations causing autism.

That was all discredited years ago


Doesn't mean much unfortunately.

Depends on what you mean. It means the research was entirely discredited and any conclusions drawn from it are entirely discredited.

It means there is no evidence of causal links between MMR (or other vaccinations) and autism.

It doesn't mean that stupid people will continue to expose their children (and by implication other people's children) to horrendous medical risks by not vaccinating.

 


"It's almost like a moral decision. Except not really cos noone is going to find out," Jez, Peep Show

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 26 Feb 15 11.39am

Quote nickgusset at 25 Feb 2015 10.08pm

Seems (from an educators perspective at least) that it is on the rise. Is it just being diagnosed more or are there really more cases?

According to this article [Link] pesticides are to blame.

Thoughts?

I'd have thought it was largely down to a greater understanding of the symptoms, and the willingness of identification in a new generation of doctors and parents.

My nephew has Asperger's, and he reminds me of a lot of kids I went to school with who were considered 'slow learners', 'socially inept' and 'disruptive'.

I don't generally ascribe to the idea that somehow its just parents 'bucking responsibility'. Autism is a very real disorder, well established and documented, and the determinism of an autistic spectrum complies with scientific, medial and psychiatric requirements (as well as being consistent with observations of autism as existing on a spectrum of severity).

Usually as well, you tend to normal well adapted children in the same family. Typically one would expect a 'behavioural problem' produced by parenting to be present in all children.

Also, interesting, my wife, her self a teacher, noticed it almost immediately, within minutes of meeting Ben (my nephew) and said she thought he was ASD.

 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 26 Feb 15 11.43am

Quote Ian J at 26 Feb 2015 10.36am

Quote npn at 26 Feb 2015 9.19am

Quote nickgusset at 26 Feb 2015 9.02am

Quote npn at 26 Feb 2015 8.47am

Quote nickgusset at 25 Feb 2015 11.22pm

Quote johnfirewall at 25 Feb 2015 10.26pm

Google the author of the paper cited in that article. Got an unrelated PHD and previously tried to attribute autism to vaccines.

Also you could've plotted Palace's league position on those graphs and that would've been as relevant.

Edited by johnfirewall (25 Feb 2015 10.29pm)


I understand your point about the author, but what's the problem with the graph. It shows a 1 in 5000 prevalence in 1975 up to 1 in 68 in 2014. Are you saying this isn't the case? Sounds about right. Every class I've taught has had at least one kid (out of 30) with ASD.


I suspect the majority of that is just the labelling which is more common nowadays.

I never went to school (40 odd years ago) with any autistic kids or kids with ADHD, but certainly had "weird kids" and "naughty kids" in my classes.


Labelling or diagnosis?


Some from column A, some from column B.
I actually think it's a good thing in the vast majority of cases (to then provide the support these kids need) but I think there is also a certain amount of readiness to label.

I understand - you'll know far better than I (my wife's a TA who deals with a lot of 'challenging' kids and she explained it to me once, but I wasn't really listening!) that it's beneficial to the schools to have special needs kids either in terms of Ofsted grades or funding.

I'm fairly certain at least some of the kids I went to school with had genuine issues, and were largely failed by the education system through lack of diagnosis and help, however, I'm also sure there are a lot of parents and schools who would rather their kid had SEN than was just deemed to be a little sh!te.


I have no idea whether it is or isn't beneficial to the schools but they won't get additional funding without a diagnosis from outside health professionals.

I think that the reason that you and I plus others of our age groups didn't come across autism when we were at school was because it wasn't widely recognised in those days and kids were either just stupid or disruptive without anyone knowing (or caring) why

Is the correct answer. Autism and ASDs aren't new, they've always been present, its just that they weren't identified as a specific disorder back then (its as late as 1991 that ASD is determined).

Back then, they were just left to it, generally failed and stuffed. Incidently, IT is full of people with undiagnosed Aspergers.


 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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Rubin Flag 26 Feb 15 11.59am Send a Private Message to Rubin Add Rubin as a friend

Quote OknotOK at 26 Feb 2015 11.15am

Quote Rubin at 26 Feb 2015 11.03am

Quote Ian J at 26 Feb 2015 6.36am

Quote Rubin at 26 Feb 2015 3.19am

There's a lot of stuff on childhood vaccinations causing autism.

That was all discredited years ago


Doesn't mean much unfortunately.

Depends on what you mean. It means the research was entirely discredited and any conclusions drawn from it are entirely discredited.

It means there is no evidence of causal links between MMR (or other vaccinations) and autism.

It doesn't mean that stupid people will continue to expose their children (and by implication other people's children) to horrendous medical risks by not vaccinating.

Understandable point of view, but my instinct is to always distrust or question the 'official' line, especially when it involves pharmaceutical companies.

 

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Canterbury Palace Flag Whitstable 26 Feb 15 12.43pm Send a Private Message to Canterbury Palace Add Canterbury Palace as a friend

I think there is definitely a link between medication and autism in some cases, whether through vaccinations or otherwise. I'm one of 5 siblings and my younger brother is autistic whereas the rest of us, his twin included, are all 'normal'.

The thing that differentiates him from the rest of us is that as a child he was constantly ill with severe asthma and allergies as well as two broken arms. This resulted in him being given a massive amount of medication from an early age including ventolin, antibiotics and medicinal steroids and there is no doubt in my mind that it played at least a part if not directly causing it.

 


We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold...

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Harpo Flag Oxfordshire 26 Feb 15 12.44pm Send a Private Message to Harpo Add Harpo as a friend

When I was at school - '62-'68 - there were no kids with special needs that I recall.

All my fellow pupils were quite normal. It was the school that had special needs.

Entirely unscientific, but I reckon it's a combination of; cuts in education, cuts in the health service, diet, computer games and employment levels. Combine all that lot within a household and you're bound to have problems.

 

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oldstand Flag Christchurch 26 Feb 15 1.43pm Send a Private Message to oldstand Add oldstand as a friend

Recreational drugs must be also be considered, how many different strains of drugs have been arriving since the rave scene of the late 80,s 90,s onwards. Sounds cuckoo I know,but somethings going down here. Check it out, ask the parents,research it I say.

 

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Midlands Eagle Flag 26 Feb 15 2.43pm Send a Private Message to Midlands Eagle Add Midlands Eagle as a friend

Quote oldstand at 26 Feb 2015 1.43pm

Recreational drugs must be also be considered, how many different strains of drugs have been arriving since the rave scene of the late 80,s 90,s onwards. Sounds cuckoo I know,but somethings going down here. Check it out, ask the parents,research it I say.

If it helps your statistics neither my wife nor myself have ever taken any recreational drugs yet we have an autistic son

 

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 26 Feb 15 3.09pm

Quote oldstand at 26 Feb 2015 1.43pm

Recreational drugs must be also be considered, how many different strains of drugs have been arriving since the rave scene of the late 80,s 90,s onwards. Sounds cuckoo I know,but somethings going down here. Check it out, ask the parents,research it I say.

Very unlikely, unless taken during pregnancy. Recreational drugs tend to be neurotransmitter reuptake stimulators or inhibitors and have no mutagenic capacity to alter the DNA (Autism has a strong hereditary correlation). The only ones I could imagine, which taken during pregnancy, that would likely affect the neurological pathways involved in autism would be dopamine antagonists (amphetamines), as the symptoms seen in autism do have a relationship to those seen in schizophrenia which is 'modelled' using amphetamines.

I know is de rigur to blame anything on something, but its unlikely that autism occurs in a simple structural cause and effect model. Its probably a combination of multiple hereditary factors, environmental triggers (either in utereo or as an new born) coupled with the immune system (inflammation in the neural pathways in autism is not entirely dissimilar to a factor in epilepsy and the two seem to have a relationship - the levels of epilepsy in autism are statistically abnormal)


 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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