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legaleagle  06 Dec 14 11.41am |
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As of 2013,only about £112 of the average £1,415 energy bill was represented by green commitments. Some of these were the subsidies to support investment in renewables, notably wind; some to promote more energy-efficient homes, typically older houses occupied by Britain's poorest (including grannies) ; and some to install smart meters to help people (including grannies) to better control their energy usage as well as automatically buying for them energy from the cheapest supplier. How many grannies will die this winter because of excess price hikes since privatisation due to energy companies seeking to maximise profit and returns for their shareholders?
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 Stirlingsays 06 Dec 14 11.48am |
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Quote legaleagle at 06 Dec 2014 11.41am
As of 2013,only about £112 of the average £1,415 energy bill was represented by green commitments. Some of these were the subsidies to support investment in renewables, notably wind; some to promote more energy-efficient homes, typically older houses occupied by Britain's poorest (including grannies) ; and some to install smart meters to help people (including grannies) to better control their energy usage as well as automatically buying for them energy from the cheapest supplier. How many grannies will die this winter because of excess price hikes since privatisation due to energy companies seeking to maximise profit and returns for their shareholders?
It remains that investment in most ineffective green initiatives is on a 'bang per buck' basis foolish and going nowhere. It is also a fact that if these policies didn't exist that the overall bill would be smaller and probably less people would die this winter.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| legaleagle 06 Dec 14 12.01pm |
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Stirling. I see it a different way. Namely that my post was bang on point in response to your pop about grannies dying because of "green" investment in energy. As for "green facts" do re-read the first part of my post. Yes, you are right that if we spend nothing on investing for future energy needs and investing to help people reduce their bills, it would be cheaper in the short-term. But, not necessarily in the mid-term. Try putting your philosophy across everything in the economic and social spheres.No investment this year in anything (ie insulating homes better or cheaper forms of energy) to reduce future consumer costs regardless of any benefits down the line, such as keeping more grannies alive. If you want to look at why grannies die due to not being able to afford to pay for enough heating, try examining the more pertinent reasons. How about, for example, reducing VAT on energy bills for pensioners from 5% to nil%? Might keep some grannies alive this winter.Or is that intrinsically no good in your view because that kind of idea might be likely to come from people sympathetic to "green" or "left" policies? Edited by legaleagle (06 Dec 2014 12.11pm)
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| Stirlingsays 06 Dec 14 1.49pm |
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Quote legaleagle at 06 Dec 2014 12.01pm
Stirling. I see it a different way. Namely that my post was bang on point in response to your pop about grannies dying because of "green" investment in energy. As for "green facts" do re-read the first part of my post. Yes, you are right that if we spend nothing on investing for future energy needs and investing to help people reduce their bills, it would be cheaper in the short-term. But, not necessarily in the mid-term. Try putting your philosophy across everything in the economic and social spheres.No investment this year in anything (ie insulating homes better or cheaper forms of energy) to reduce future consumer costs regardless of any benefits down the line, such as keeping more grannies alive. If you want to look at why grannies die due to not being able to afford to pay for enough heating, try examining the more pertinent reasons. How about, for example, reducing VAT on energy bills for pensioners from 5% to nil%? Might keep some grannies alive this winter.Or is that intrinsically no good in your view because that kind of idea might be likely to come from people sympathetic to "green" or "left" policies? Edited by legaleagle (06 Dec 2014 12.11pm) About the only 'green' policy idea that I hold with is the investment is in ensuring that all new homes that are built are energy efficient. Wind farms and other forms of energy creation are almost a criminal and foolish usage of public money in my view and their practical effect of raising energy bills is again...In my view an incompetent policy direction where the poor take the largest hit ........It is ideology over practical common sense. As for your suggestion that other forms of financial decisions would make a larger impact.....Well, I'm not disagreeing that this could be the case.....I'm just focusing upon the 'green' agenda and its actual practical impact on the poor. The Green's membership are mostly a section of the lefty middle class.....And in reality that section of the middle classes, while insisting they care about those with less, rarely give more than lip service. As for the sense in long term green policies.....After considerable investment I think we are seeing the reality of their comparable inefficiency now. While Russia, India, China, most of Africa and the middle east continue to expand their energy use...ie China open tens of coal powered factories every year...We...in Europe continue to pursue policies whose only practical outcome is to kill off slightly more poor people in the winter......We are told that we can 'hold our chin up' in environmental discussions with these countries.....Really...The logic of the argument is that nonsensical and ridiculous....The poor suffer so the well off can keep to their principles.....flying to these conventions in planes of course. The only solution to global warming is via technological advancement, electric cars, nuclear fusion and so on....All mainly being pursued by private companies....Seeing hope in windmills is the triumph of dreams over hard nosed reality. Edited by Stirlingsays (06 Dec 2014 1.57pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| sanitycheck 06 Dec 14 1.59pm |
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I wonder what year the lowest number of UK winter deaths ever was recored? Edited by sanitycheck (06 Dec 2014 2.00pm)
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.| Stirlingsays 06 Dec 14 2.10pm |
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Quote sanitycheck at 06 Dec 2014 1.59pm
I wonder what year the lowest number of UK winter deaths ever was recored? Edited by sanitycheck (06 Dec 2014 2.00pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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Seth  On a pale blue dot 06 Dec 14 2.16pm |
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According to 470,522 surveys done on the website voteforpolicies, the Greens have to most popular policies out of them, Labour, LibDems, Tories, UKIP or the BNP: [Link] Some surprising results and you can take the test yourself and see who you should vote for on the site.
"You can feel the stadium jumping. The stadium is actually physically moving up and down" |
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| sanitycheck 06 Dec 14 2.34pm |
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Quote Stirlingsays at 06 Dec 2014 2.10pm
Quote sanitycheck at 06 Dec 2014 1.59pm
I wonder what year the lowest number of UK winter deaths ever was recored? Edited by sanitycheck (06 Dec 2014 2.00pm)
And maybe lots of people have died for one reason or another due to an over reliance on oil too. But nevermind that. Edited by sanitycheck (06 Dec 2014 2.36pm)
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| Stirlingsays 06 Dec 14 3.24pm |
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Quote sanitycheck at 06 Dec 2014 2.34pm
And maybe lots of people have died for one reason or another due to an over reliance on oil too. But nevermind that. Edited by sanitycheck (06 Dec 2014 2.36pm) Yeah....get rid of oil and see what difference it makes to the death rate.....What's the point of saying stuff like that?
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Stirlingsays 06 Dec 14 3.24pm |
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Quote Seth at 06 Dec 2014 2.16pm
According to 470,522 surveys done on the website voteforpolicies, the Greens have to most popular policies out of them, Labour, LibDems, Tories, UKIP or the BNP: [Link] Some surprising results and you can take the test yourself and see who you should vote for on the site.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| sanitycheck 06 Dec 14 3.38pm |
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Quote Stirlingsays at 06 Dec 2014 3.24pm
Quote sanitycheck at 06 Dec 2014 2.34pm
And maybe lots of people have died for one reason or another due to an over reliance on oil too. But nevermind that. Edited by sanitycheck (06 Dec 2014 2.36pm) Yeah....get rid of oil and see what difference it makes to the death rate.....What's the point of saying stuff like that? Where did I say anything about getting rid of oil? We don't need to re-invent a person's point of view just because they state a truth. Edited by sanitycheck (06 Dec 2014 3.40pm)
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| serial thriller The Promised Land 06 Dec 14 5.05pm |
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The problems with the council in Brighton mainly stem from the massive cuts to local government from Westminster. Obviously it makes the confines in which the Greens can carry out their more Keynesian, leftist economic policies much narrower, and it's caused real issues in the regional party by the sounds of it. I really struggle to understand you Stirling, your arguments about energy prices is just so filled with holes. Surely you appreciate that pensioners dying of hypothermia is as much to do with the increasingly cold winters we are experiencing, as well as the financial squeeze a lot of working class people from all age groups are being burdened with? These are two things the Greens are raising awareness about, and which would do far more to eradicate the issue than just getting rid of the tax, which would probably just lead to a further price hike from the energy companies themselves. The Greens' overall message and ideology is a bit vague and wishy washy, but when you compare it to UKIP it looks like an incredibly well-thought out analysis. And in terms of the main policy each party is pursuing, Climate Change is a far, far bigger issue we have to deal with than EU bureaucracy.
If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4 |
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