Palace Academy Boss Praises Youngsters

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Palace Academy Boss Praises Youngsters

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big_palace_fan 23 Mar 14 5.49pm
Quote Icepick Tony at 23 Mar 2014 5.14pm Quote Nevermind at 23 Mar 2014 12.11pm Quote Icepick Tony at 23 Mar 2014 11.07am If a player is good enough to add to the team, they will play. It really is as simple as that. For every Zaha/Moses there will be 20+ Lee Hills. Players who look amazing prospects but sadly just don't make the grade. There are very few Rooney/Sturridge's in the world, young players who don't look out of their depth from the moment they step foot on the pitch. KaiKai for example is held in great regard, he has hardly set the world alight at Crawley though and to say he will change us in the Premiership is just barking mad. Sadly it doesn't work like that. The only reason Zaha, Moses and Clyne were given their debuts is because we were short on players. There is no way on this planet that Zaha was ready for the championship when he came on against Cardiff(?) under Paul Hart but the experience he gained from playing let him hone his skills and improve dramatically. We need to give these youngsters a chance to get some experience. KaiKai is struggling at Crawley but has shown some ability; but it's also a totally different environment to the Premier League. I don't think anyone is saying he would be instrumental in our team but what's the harm in giving him 15 minutes against a team when we're losing 2-0 or 3-0? Instead we bring in players and play them out of position and the chance to get a youngster some game time and experience to improve them is gone. No player is ever ready for first team football. They become ready by playing. There's too much pressure on manager's to not play academy players, as it's a risk; but any manager worth their salt would take that risk if they wanted to help build a sustainable football club. ~ Re: Lee Hills; he has the talent, it's just that his knees were 10 years older than the rest of his body. Pointless comparison. Edited by Nevermind (23 Mar 2014 12.11pm) I see what you are saying but top top youngsters will prove they are ready and be included. Rooney at 16 was different gravy. Sturridge again was class and pushing for the 1st team at Chelsea but didn't want to play 2nd fiddle as he knew how good he was. Ross Barkley at Everton plays because he is quality, he would walk into our squad. Kane & Benteleb at Spurs are great youngsters that would add to our squad and play! Zaha and Moses lacked experience but skill wise was leaps and bounds above what we had. Clyne played because he was the best RB we had on our books. Yes Hills was injury prone but its a fair comparison to make, he is one of thousands of academy players that, for whatever reason, don't make the grade. If Kaikai was 'THAT' good he wouldn't be on loan, he would be in our squad as we are crying out for a striker who can score. He will gain experience at Crawley and come back better but he won't challenge what we have in the squad now. We are not in a position to blood in players that simply wont add to our squad. We have the under 21's league for that, or loans. Williams is by far and away our best prospect coming through but he isn't good enough to be in our squad in the position we are in, he has had a few games to prove himself and he just hasn't. He will play and this loan at Ipswich is vital to his development and the best way to get him up to speed for a shot at the 1st team. Although our academy is good, it's nowhere near that of Southamptons, or the top clubs. 90% of the players we produce are just not good enough to play for us. I feel generally we should pump even more money into the academy now we produced a star like Zaha. Get it to that next level where we produce international not just PL level players like CLyne, Zaha and Moses. Of all the players weve heard about over the past 10 years or so, so many simply havent been quite good enough, same as anyone elses academy though, think Moses Swiabu, Kieran Cadogan, Djali etc etc Southampton is what we need to aim for, obvious comment but the sooner this comes the club will be elevated to a new height
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big_palace_fan

23 Mar 14 5.49pm

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Quote Icepick Tony at 23 Mar 2014 5.14pm

Quote Nevermind at 23 Mar 2014 12.11pm

Quote Icepick Tony at 23 Mar 2014 11.07am

If a player is good enough to add to the team, they will play. It really is as simple as that.

For every Zaha/Moses there will be 20+ Lee Hills. Players who look amazing prospects but sadly just don't make the grade.

There are very few Rooney/Sturridge's in the world, young players who don't look out of their depth from the moment they step foot on the pitch.
KaiKai for example is held in great regard, he has hardly set the world alight at Crawley though and to say he will change us in the Premiership is just barking mad.

Sadly it doesn't work like that. The only reason Zaha, Moses and Clyne were given their debuts is because we were short on players. There is no way on this planet that Zaha was ready for the championship when he came on against Cardiff(?) under Paul Hart but the experience he gained from playing let him hone his skills and improve dramatically.

We need to give these youngsters a chance to get some experience. KaiKai is struggling at Crawley but has shown some ability; but it's also a totally different environment to the Premier League. I don't think anyone is saying he would be instrumental in our team but what's the harm in giving him 15 minutes against a team when we're losing 2-0 or 3-0? Instead we bring in players and play them out of position and the chance to get a youngster some game time and experience to improve them is gone.

No player is ever ready for first team football. They become ready by playing.

There's too much pressure on manager's to not play academy players, as it's a risk; but any manager worth their salt would take that risk if they wanted to help build a sustainable football club. ~

Re: Lee Hills; he has the talent, it's just that his knees were 10 years older than the rest of his body. Pointless comparison.

Edited by Nevermind (23 Mar 2014 12.11pm)

I see what you are saying but top top youngsters will prove they are ready and be included. Rooney at 16 was different gravy. Sturridge again was class and pushing for the 1st team at Chelsea but didn't want to play 2nd fiddle as he knew how good he was. Ross Barkley at Everton plays because he is quality, he would walk into our squad. Kane & Benteleb at Spurs are great youngsters that would add to our squad and play!
Zaha and Moses lacked experience but skill wise was leaps and bounds above what we had. Clyne played because he was the best RB we had on our books.

Yes Hills was injury prone but its a fair comparison to make, he is one of thousands of academy players that, for whatever reason, don't make the grade. If Kaikai was 'THAT' good he wouldn't be on loan, he would be in our squad as we are crying out for a striker who can score. He will gain experience at Crawley and come back better but he won't challenge what we have in the squad now. We are not in a position to blood in players that simply wont add to our squad. We have the under 21's league for that, or loans. Williams is by far and away our best prospect coming through but he isn't good enough to be in our squad in the position we are in, he has had a few games to prove himself and he just hasn't. He will play and this loan at Ipswich is vital to his development and the best way to get him up to speed for a shot at the 1st team.

Although our academy is good, it's nowhere near that of Southamptons, or the top clubs. 90% of the players we produce are just not good enough to play for us.

I feel generally we should pump even more money into the academy now we produced a star like Zaha. Get it to that next level where we produce international not just PL level players like CLyne, Zaha and Moses.

Of all the players weve heard about over the past 10 years or so, so many simply havent been quite good enough, same as anyone elses academy though, think Moses Swiabu, Kieran Cadogan, Djali etc etc

Southampton is what we need to aim for, obvious comment but the sooner this comes the club will be elevated to a new height

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Icepick Tony Chester 23 Mar 14 6.00pm
Quote big_palace_fan at 23 Mar 2014 5.49pm Quote Icepick Tony at 23 Mar 2014 5.14pm I see what you are saying but top top youngsters will prove they are ready and be included. Rooney at 16 was different gravy. Sturridge again was class and pushing for the 1st team at Chelsea but didn't want to play 2nd fiddle as he knew how good he was. Ross Barkley at Everton plays because he is quality, he would walk into our squad. Kane & Benteleb at Spurs are great youngsters that would add to our squad and play! Zaha and Moses lacked experience but skill wise was leaps and bounds above what we had. Clyne played because he was the best RB we had on our books. Yes Hills was injury prone but its a fair comparison to make, he is one of thousands of academy players that, for whatever reason, don't make the grade. If Kaikai was 'THAT' good he wouldn't be on loan, he would be in our squad as we are crying out for a striker who can score. He will gain experience at Crawley and come back better but he won't challenge what we have in the squad now. We are not in a position to blood in players that simply wont add to our squad. We have the under 21's league for that, or loans. Williams is by far and away our best prospect coming through but he isn't good enough to be in our squad in the position we are in, he has had a few games to prove himself and he just hasn't. He will play and this loan at Ipswich is vital to his development and the best way to get him up to speed for a shot at the 1st team. Although our academy is good, it's nowhere near that of Southamptons, or the top clubs. 90% of the players we produce are just not good enough to play for us. I feel generally we should pump even more money into the academy now we produced a star like Zaha. Get it to that next level where we produce international not just PL level players like CLyne, Zaha and Moses. Of all the players weve heard about over the past 10 years or so, so many simply havent been quite good enough, same as anyone elses academy though, think Moses Swiabu, Kieran Cadogan, Djali etc etc Southampton is what we need to aim for, obvious comment but the sooner this comes the club will be elevated to a new height I think you are right. Southampton have a very large catchment area though and, although ours is large, London is a very accessible place so the best youth can easily get to Chelsea, Spurs, Arsenal etc. I would love us to be producing great talent on a regular basis and I think we are on the right lines to do it but I also think that loaning youngsters out into leagues where there is less pressure, to get them used to 'the real game', is more beneficial that giving them 5-10 mins at the end of a game for us if they will offer us very little. IMO it benefits no-one really. Moses is international level though "They got his own song 'He's just too good for you', it's quite unbelievable but when you see it and he's facing up someone - I actually feel sorry for them, 'Cos he actually is" - Ian Holloway
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Icepick Tony

Chester 23 Mar 14 6.00pm

Quote big_palace_fan at 23 Mar 2014 5.49pm

Quote Icepick Tony at 23 Mar 2014 5.14pm

Although our academy is good, it's nowhere near that of Southamptons, or the top clubs. 90% of the players we produce are just not good enough to play for us.

Of all the players weve heard about over the past 10 years or so, so many simply havent been quite good enough, same as anyone elses academy though, think Moses Swiabu, Kieran Cadogan, Djali etc etc

Southampton is what we need to aim for, obvious comment but the sooner this comes the club will be elevated to a new height

I think you are right. Southampton have a very large catchment area though and, although ours is large, London is a very accessible place so the best youth can easily get to Chelsea, Spurs, Arsenal etc.

I would love us to be producing great talent on a regular basis and I think we are on the right lines to do it but I also think that loaning youngsters out into leagues where there is less pressure, to get them used to 'the real game', is more beneficial that giving them 5-10 mins at the end of a game for us if they will offer us very little. IMO it benefits no-one really.

Moses is international level though

"They got his own song 'He's just too good for you', it's quite unbelievable but when you see it and he's facing up someone - I actually feel sorry for them, 'Cos he actually is" - Ian Holloway

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big_palace_fan 23 Mar 14 6.18pm
Quote Icepick Tony at 23 Mar 2014 6.00pm Quote big_palace_fan at 23 Mar 2014 5.49pm Quote Icepick Tony at 23 Mar 2014 5.14pm I see what you are saying but top top youngsters will prove they are ready and be included. Rooney at 16 was different gravy. Sturridge again was class and pushing for the 1st team at Chelsea but didn't want to play 2nd fiddle as he knew how good he was. Ross Barkley at Everton plays because he is quality, he would walk into our squad. Kane & Benteleb at Spurs are great youngsters that would add to our squad and play! Zaha and Moses lacked experience but skill wise was leaps and bounds above what we had. Clyne played because he was the best RB we had on our books. Yes Hills was injury prone but its a fair comparison to make, he is one of thousands of academy players that, for whatever reason, don't make the grade. If Kaikai was 'THAT' good he wouldn't be on loan, he would be in our squad as we are crying out for a striker who can score. He will gain experience at Crawley and come back better but he won't challenge what we have in the squad now. We are not in a position to blood in players that simply wont add to our squad. We have the under 21's league for that, or loans. Williams is by far and away our best prospect coming through but he isn't good enough to be in our squad in the position we are in, he has had a few games to prove himself and he just hasn't. He will play and this loan at Ipswich is vital to his development and the best way to get him up to speed for a shot at the 1st team. Although our academy is good, it's nowhere near that of Southamptons, or the top clubs. 90% of the players we produce are just not good enough to play for us. I feel generally we should pump even more money into the academy now we produced a star like Zaha. Get it to that next level where we produce international not just PL level players like CLyne, Zaha and Moses. Of all the players weve heard about over the past 10 years or so, so many simply havent been quite good enough, same as anyone elses academy though, think Moses Swiabu, Kieran Cadogan, Djali etc etc Southampton is what we need to aim for, obvious comment but the sooner this comes the club will be elevated to a new height I think you are right. Southampton have a very large catchment area though and, although ours is large, London is a very accessible place so the best youth can easily get to Chelsea, Spurs, Arsenal etc. I would love us to be producing great talent on a regular basis and I think we are on the right lines to do it but I also think that loaning youngsters out into leagues where there is less pressure, to get them used to 'the real game', is more beneficial that giving them 5-10 mins at the end of a game for us if they will offer us very little. IMO it benefits no-one really. Moses is international level though Fair point, as is Williams. But in comparision with Saints - Walcott, Oxlade, Bale, Llalana, Shaw, Chamber (up and coming full back will play for England), and so forth
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big_palace_fan

23 Mar 14 6.18pm

Quote Icepick Tony at 23 Mar 2014 6.00pm

Quote big_palace_fan at 23 Mar 2014 5.49pm

Quote Icepick Tony at 23 Mar 2014 5.14pm

Although our academy is good, it's nowhere near that of Southamptons, or the top clubs. 90% of the players we produce are just not good enough to play for us.

Of all the players weve heard about over the past 10 years or so, so many simply havent been quite good enough, same as anyone elses academy though, think Moses Swiabu, Kieran Cadogan, Djali etc etc

Southampton is what we need to aim for, obvious comment but the sooner this comes the club will be elevated to a new height

Moses is international level though

Fair point, as is Williams. But in comparision with Saints - Walcott, Oxlade, Bale, Llalana, Shaw, Chamber (up and coming full back will play for England), and so forth

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Icepick Tony Chester 23 Mar 14 6.30pm
Quote big_palace_fan at 23 Mar 2014 6.18pm Quote Icepick Tony at 23 Mar 2014 6.00pm I think you are right. Southampton have a very large catchment area though and, although ours is large, London is a very accessible place so the best youth can easily get to Chelsea, Spurs, Arsenal etc. I would love us to be producing great talent on a regular basis and I think we are on the right lines to do it but I also think that loaning youngsters out into leagues where there is less pressure, to get them used to 'the real game', is more beneficial that giving them 5-10 mins at the end of a game for us if they will offer us very little. IMO it benefits no-one really. Moses is international level though Fair point, as is Williams. But in comparision with Saints - Walcott, Oxlade, Bale, Llalana, Shaw, Chamber (up and coming full back will play for England), and so forth Oh yea, agree 100% "They got his own song 'He's just too good for you', it's quite unbelievable but when you see it and he's facing up someone - I actually feel sorry for them, 'Cos he actually is" - Ian Holloway
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Icepick Tony

Chester 23 Mar 14 6.30pm

Quote big_palace_fan at 23 Mar 2014 6.18pm

Quote Icepick Tony at 23 Mar 2014 6.00pm

Moses is international level though

Fair point, as is Williams. But in comparision with Saints - Walcott, Oxlade, Bale, Llalana, Shaw, Chamber (up and coming full back will play for England), and so forth

Oh yea, agree 100%

"They got his own song 'He's just too good for you', it's quite unbelievable but when you see it and he's facing up someone - I actually feel sorry for them, 'Cos he actually is" - Ian Holloway

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adrian b Landrindod, Wales 23 Mar 14 8.38pm
Listen Icepicker, batches of good youngsters are occasional. Southampton have some at the moment, though if you want to know, they have been developed elsewhere, in places where they may not be welcomed when new academies are opened. Man. Utd had batches years apart, West Ham had a fantastic batch as we did in the 80's. All any club can hope for is to produce a youngster to make a living in the industry. To do that Palace need to instil a realistic achievement level in each boy and the requisite discipline to adhere to fitness and training regimes. Palace can, and do do that. A batch would be wonderful but lucky.
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adrian b

Landrindod, Wales 23 Mar 14 8.38pm

Listen Icepicker, batches of good youngsters are occasional. Southampton have some at the moment, though if you want to know, they have been developed elsewhere, in places where they may not be welcomed when new academies are opened. Man. Utd had batches years apart, West Ham had a fantastic batch as we did in the 80's. All any club can hope for is to produce a youngster to make a living in the industry. To do that Palace need to instil a realistic achievement level in each boy and the requisite discipline to adhere to fitness and training regimes. Palace can, and do do that. A batch would be wonderful but lucky.

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Icepick Tony Chester 23 Mar 14 9.16pm
Quote adrian b at 23 Mar 2014 8.38pm Listen Icepicker, batches of good youngsters are occasional. Southampton have some at the moment, though if you want to know, they have been developed elsewhere, in places where they may not be welcomed when new academies are opened. Man. Utd had batches years apart, West Ham had a fantastic batch as we did in the 80's. All any club can hope for is to produce a youngster to make a living in the industry. To do that Palace need to instil a realistic achievement level in each boy and the requisite discipline to adhere to fitness and training regimes. Palace can, and do do that. A batch would be wonderful but lucky. I'm fully aware of how the academy system has worked in the past and how it has developed in today's world. Southampton do not occasionally produce good youth players, they have done so consistently over the past decade. Crewe had an amazing youth set-up established under Dario Gradi that produced some great players but as they have drifted down the leagues and the top clubs have developed their academies and effectively stockpiled potential talent they are producing less. I don't expect us to batch produce talent, nor have I said so. My point of view is that our youth players will benefit more from being sent out on loan to lower leagues to gain real game-time experience in order to come back and actually fight for a squad place rather than sit on our bench for a 5-10 minute cameo in a game we are getting beaten in. There is no greater achievement in the short term for academy players than to play for the team that has nurtured them, match experience gained to mount a serious challenge to make the team sheet week in, week out is generally going to have to be gained from playing out on loan unless you are exceptionally gifted. In which case you break into the first team and add something to it. My argument all along has been that we have no-one coming through that adds anything to our squad. That is not starving out our own youth players, simply that they are not good enough. Yet. "They got his own song 'He's just too good for you', it's quite unbelievable but when you see it and he's facing up someone - I actually feel sorry for them, 'Cos he actually is" - Ian Holloway
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Icepick Tony

Chester 23 Mar 14 9.16pm

Quote adrian b at 23 Mar 2014 8.38pm

I'm fully aware of how the academy system has worked in the past and how it has developed in today's world. Southampton do not occasionally produce good youth players, they have done so consistently over the past decade. Crewe had an amazing youth set-up established under Dario Gradi that produced some great players but as they have drifted down the leagues and the top clubs have developed their academies and effectively stockpiled potential talent they are producing less.

I don't expect us to batch produce talent, nor have I said so. My point of view is that our youth players will benefit more from being sent out on loan to lower leagues to gain real game-time experience in order to come back and actually fight for a squad place rather than sit on our bench for a 5-10 minute cameo in a game we are getting beaten in.

There is no greater achievement in the short term for academy players than to play for the team that has nurtured them, match experience gained to mount a serious challenge to make the team sheet week in, week out is generally going to have to be gained from playing out on loan unless you are exceptionally gifted. In which case you break into the first team and add something to it.

My argument all along has been that we have no-one coming through that adds anything to our squad. That is not starving out our own youth players, simply that they are not good enough. Yet.

"They got his own song 'He's just too good for you', it's quite unbelievable but when you see it and he's facing up someone - I actually feel sorry for them, 'Cos he actually is" - Ian Holloway

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