Training the Newbies

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Training the Newbies

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est1905 18 Feb 14 6.54pm
Quote Stirlingsays at 18 Feb 2014 9.53am Quote Mapletree at 18 Feb 2014 9.44am I don't think my post mentioned age. I have supported Palace longer than you. I did not say there is anything wrong with people who don't want to sing. What I did say is don't knock new generation supporters. Just maybe they will bring added passion, and not less passion, to SP. With any luck they will copy what they see and learn to have no inhibitions about singing. I find it frustrating that we all acknowledge we are the '12th man' yet many people feel no responsibility towards that. We SHOULD increase our noise when we are one down. Football is interactive, it isn't telly. Ask Delia. But, despite what you suggest, on HOL I won't encourage you to sing because I would only come under attack. See the posters on this thread. Surely you are old enough to know that there is no 'should' in how a fan chooses to support their club. If a fan buys their ticket and wants to watch in peace and quiet then that is just as valid as a fan who wants to jump around. Different strokes for different folks. There is no 'should' in how a fan chooses to support their team.....Their money, their choice. From my own perspective I'm welcoming to all fans.....The more the merrier. We can't become a bigger club without more fans and fans come in all types. This, Spot on
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est1905

18 Feb 14 6.54pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 18 Feb 2014 9.53am

Quote Mapletree at 18 Feb 2014 9.44am

I don't think my post mentioned age. I have supported Palace longer than you. I did not say there is anything wrong with people who don't want to sing. What I did say is don't knock new generation supporters. Just maybe they will bring added passion, and not less passion, to SP. With any luck they will copy what they see and learn to have no inhibitions about singing.

I find it frustrating that we all acknowledge we are the '12th man' yet many people feel no responsibility towards that. We SHOULD increase our noise when we are one down. Football is interactive, it isn't telly. Ask Delia.

But, despite what you suggest, on HOL I won't encourage you to sing because I would only come under attack. See the posters on this thread.

Surely you are old enough to know that there is no 'should' in how a fan chooses to support their club.

If a fan buys their ticket and wants to watch in peace and quiet then that is just as valid as a fan who wants to jump around.

Different strokes for different folks.

There is no 'should' in how a fan chooses to support their team.....Their money, their choice.

From my own perspective I'm welcoming to all fans.....The more the merrier. We can't become a bigger club without more fans and fans come in all types.

This,
Spot on

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est1905 18 Feb 14 6.57pm
Quote Mapletree at 18 Feb 2014 9.44am Quote Dweeb at 17 Feb 2014 11.27am Quote Mapletree at 15 Feb 2014 2.03pm There is a general view on HOL that new generation supporters won't fit in very well and won't add to the atmosphere. Thinking about that, the people that don't sing much - although they are improving - are primarily in the Main Stand. Most of those guys are long-standing supporters who just don't feel the need to sing. Hard to get them going and they feel more embarrassment about singing than about not singing. But the newbies are there to be moulded. Could it be that when they first arrive they will see the singing and assume they really should participate? And maybe many of them are coming because we have a reputation for atmosphere and will want to add to it. Clearly, there is no ageism is going on here then. When I first started supporting Palace some 50 years ago now no one moulded me I joined in becuase I wanted to, and despite whatever the HF membership think of the singing, noise and supportive atmosphere they create today, it is NOTHING as compared to 50,000 plus fans shouting Eagles, or singing the songs of our day! Also, having been supporting the club for this length of time and as my body moves towards its 60th year I also have to admit I no longer have the ability to vocally sustain that support. It does not mean I don't do it, but rather I am more selective as to when, how loud and for how long. I wish I could stand for up to 3 hours, and shout as loud as I once did for PCFC, but humans get older and bodies change, no matter how much we may resist. So, how about encoruaging people instead of berating or trying to mould, which is another word for indoctrinate. Each generation finds its own way to support it doesn't need an "either or choice" from anyone. I don't think my post mentioned age. I have supported Palace longer than you. I did not say there is anything wrong with people who don't want to sing. What I did say is don't knock new generation supporters. Just maybe they will bring added passion, and not less passion, to SP. With any luck they will copy what they see and learn to have no inhibitions about singing. I find it frustrating that we all acknowledge we are the '12th man' yet many people feel no responsibility towards that. We SHOULD increase our noise when we are one down. Football is interactive, it isn't telly. Ask Delia. But, despite what you suggest, on HOL I won't encourage you to sing because I would only come under attack. See the posters on this thread. And lets have a round of applause for Mr Maple syrup (or whatever his name is!)
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est1905

18 Feb 14 6.57pm

Quote Mapletree at 18 Feb 2014 9.44am

Quote Dweeb at 17 Feb 2014 11.27am

Quote Mapletree at 15 Feb 2014 2.03pm

There is a general view on HOL that new generation supporters won't fit in very well and won't add to the atmosphere.

Thinking about that, the people that don't sing much - although they are improving - are primarily in the Main Stand. Most of those guys are long-standing supporters who just don't feel the need to sing. Hard to get them going and they feel more embarrassment about singing than about not singing.

But the newbies are there to be moulded. Could it be that when they first arrive they will see the singing and assume they really should participate? And maybe many of them are coming because we have a reputation for atmosphere and will want to add to it.

Clearly, there is no ageism is going on here then.

When I first started supporting Palace some 50 years ago now no one moulded me I joined in becuase I wanted to, and despite whatever the HF membership think of the singing, noise and supportive atmosphere they create today, it is NOTHING as compared to 50,000 plus fans shouting Eagles, or singing the songs of our day!

Also, having been supporting the club for this length of time and as my body moves towards its 60th year I also have to admit I no longer have the ability to vocally sustain that support. It does not mean I don't do it, but rather I am more selective as to when, how loud and for how long.

I wish I could stand for up to 3 hours, and shout as loud as I once did for PCFC, but humans get older and bodies change, no matter how much we may resist.

So, how about encoruaging people instead of berating or trying to mould, which is another word for indoctrinate. Each generation finds its own way to support it doesn't need an "either or choice" from anyone.

I don't think my post mentioned age. I have supported Palace longer than you. I did not say there is anything wrong with people who don't want to sing. What I did say is don't knock new generation supporters. Just maybe they will bring added passion, and not less passion, to SP. With any luck they will copy what they see and learn to have no inhibitions about singing.

But, despite what you suggest, on HOL I won't encourage you to sing because I would only come under attack. See the posters on this thread.

And lets have a round of applause for Mr Maple syrup (or whatever his name is!)

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cols123 beckenham 18 Feb 14 8.52pm
Quote Moose at 18 Feb 2014 10.05am Quote sydtheeagle at 17 Feb 2014 12.34pm The same is true with the notion of "training", as Hoofie points out. These days, love (of someone or something) is not enough of a motivator...if you want the pre-fabricated, unalloyed, live-in-technicolour football experience then you train your supporters to provide it. They don't have to love the club or even, for that matter, like football as long as they sing an behave as expected and get their 15 minutes on TV. A corollary of this is the number of fans happy to accept "your team is awful but everyone thinks our supporters are great" as representing some sort of achievement...hey, Palace may be crap but we're famous...that's what it's all about. Have you also noticed that the subject of most of our newer songs is the crowd rather than the team? Probably in the main because we have a different squad every 2 seasons! We are the only constant.
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cols123

beckenham 18 Feb 14 8.52pm

Quote Moose at 18 Feb 2014 10.05am

Quote sydtheeagle at 17 Feb 2014 12.34pm

The same is true with the notion of "training", as Hoofie points out. These days, love (of someone or something) is not enough of a motivator...if you want the pre-fabricated, unalloyed, live-in-technicolour football experience then you train your supporters to provide it. They don't have to love the club or even, for that matter, like football as long as they sing an behave as expected and get their 15 minutes on TV. A corollary of this is the number of fans happy to accept "your team is awful but everyone thinks our supporters are great" as representing some sort of achievement...hey, Palace may be crap but we're famous...that's what it's all about.

Have you also noticed that the subject of most of our newer songs is the crowd rather than the team?

Probably in the main because we have a different squad every 2 seasons! We are the only constant.

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Mapletree Croydon 18 Feb 14 9.43pm
Quote sydtheeagle at 17 Feb 2014 12.34pm I rather think, or fear, that the OP is a product of the world he lives in and as such he's just reverting to type. Wisbech correctly points out that some of today's lads don't even face the pitch. That's because, these days, it's all about ME being the centre of attention, not the team or anyone or anything else. Why do you think reality shows (with their zero production costs) have supplanted proper dramas (which are expensive to make) on TV? Answer: Because skill-free people grabbing for their 15 minutes of fame has become more important than serious entertainment. In fact, ME /MYSELF/I has become entertainment. Today, satisfying ME is the point of almost everything. The same is true with the notion of "training", as Hoofie points out. These days, love (of someone or something) is not enough of a motivator...if you want the pre-fabricated, unalloyed, live-in-technicolour football experience then you train your supporters to provide it. They don't have to love the club or even, for that matter, like football as long as they sing an behave as expected and get their 15 minutes on TV. A corollary of this is the number of fans happy to accept "your team is awful but everyone thinks our supporters are great" as representing some sort of achievement...hey, Palace may be crap but we're famous...that's what it's all about. We live in a fcuked up world, that's for sure. I'm with those who remember when supporting Palace was about, well, supporting Palace. To be honest, if we start having to give our supporters lessons in behaviour then I think I'll be off for good. Syd, funnily enough I see the opposite point. The way that the crowd works together isn't 'me', it's community. A feeling of belonging which is a part of the experience. We are part of a club. And I for one have been to Palace games that really could not have been classed as entertainment. Yet I still kept coming back to be a part of it. In fact I didn't even care that much when we were rubbish, it was just a fact of life. That is, as you rightly say, because we support, we don't just watch. So I am hoping that new people will pick up on that point and teach themselves through experience that coming to the match is more than just watching.
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Mapletree

Croydon 18 Feb 14 9.43pm

Quote sydtheeagle at 17 Feb 2014 12.34pm

I rather think, or fear, that the OP is a product of the world he lives in and as such he's just reverting to type.

Wisbech correctly points out that some of today's lads don't even face the pitch. That's because, these days, it's all about ME being the centre of attention, not the team or anyone or anything else. Why do you think reality shows (with their zero production costs) have supplanted proper dramas (which are expensive to make) on TV? Answer: Because skill-free people grabbing for their 15 minutes of fame has become more important than serious entertainment. In fact, ME /MYSELF/I has become entertainment. Today, satisfying ME is the point of almost everything.

We live in a fcuked up world, that's for sure. I'm with those who remember when supporting Palace was about, well, supporting Palace. To be honest, if we start having to give our supporters lessons in behaviour then I think I'll be off for good.

Syd, funnily enough I see the opposite point. The way that the crowd works together isn't 'me', it's community. A feeling of belonging which is a part of the experience. We are part of a club. And I for one have been to Palace games that really could not have been classed as entertainment. Yet I still kept coming back to be a part of it. In fact I didn't even care that much when we were rubbish, it was just a fact of life.

That is, as you rightly say, because we support, we don't just watch. So I am hoping that new people will pick up on that point and teach themselves through experience that coming to the match is more than just watching.

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Mapletree Croydon 18 Feb 14 9.44pm
Quote est1905 at 18 Feb 2014 6.57pm Quote Mapletree at 18 Feb 2014 9.44am Quote Dweeb at 17 Feb 2014 11.27am Quote Mapletree at 15 Feb 2014 2.03pm There is a general view on HOL that new generation supporters won't fit in very well and won't add to the atmosphere. Thinking about that, the people that don't sing much - although they are improving - are primarily in the Main Stand. Most of those guys are long-standing supporters who just don't feel the need to sing. Hard to get them going and they feel more embarrassment about singing than about not singing. But the newbies are there to be moulded. Could it be that when they first arrive they will see the singing and assume they really should participate? And maybe many of them are coming because we have a reputation for atmosphere and will want to add to it. Clearly, there is no ageism is going on here then. When I first started supporting Palace some 50 years ago now no one moulded me I joined in becuase I wanted to, and despite whatever the HF membership think of the singing, noise and supportive atmosphere they create today, it is NOTHING as compared to 50,000 plus fans shouting Eagles, or singing the songs of our day! Also, having been supporting the club for this length of time and as my body moves towards its 60th year I also have to admit I no longer have the ability to vocally sustain that support. It does not mean I don't do it, but rather I am more selective as to when, how loud and for how long. I wish I could stand for up to 3 hours, and shout as loud as I once did for PCFC, but humans get older and bodies change, no matter how much we may resist. So, how about encoruaging people instead of berating or trying to mould, which is another word for indoctrinate. Each generation finds its own way to support it doesn't need an "either or choice" from anyone. I don't think my post mentioned age. I have supported Palace longer than you. I did not say there is anything wrong with people who don't want to sing. What I did say is don't knock new generation supporters. Just maybe they will bring added passion, and not less passion, to SP. With any luck they will copy what they see and learn to have no inhibitions about singing. I find it frustrating that we all acknowledge we are the '12th man' yet many people feel no responsibility towards that. We SHOULD increase our noise when we are one down. Football is interactive, it isn't telly. Ask Delia. But, despite what you suggest, on HOL I won't encourage you to sing because I would only come under attack. See the posters on this thread. And lets have a round of applause for Mr Maple syrup (or whatever his name is!) My, you are being very personal tonight aren't you.
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Mapletree

Croydon 18 Feb 14 9.44pm

Quote est1905 at 18 Feb 2014 6.57pm

Quote Mapletree at 18 Feb 2014 9.44am

Quote Dweeb at 17 Feb 2014 11.27am

Quote Mapletree at 15 Feb 2014 2.03pm

There is a general view on HOL that new generation supporters won't fit in very well and won't add to the atmosphere.

Clearly, there is no ageism is going on here then.

I wish I could stand for up to 3 hours, and shout as loud as I once did for PCFC, but humans get older and bodies change, no matter how much we may resist.

But, despite what you suggest, on HOL I won't encourage you to sing because I would only come under attack. See the posters on this thread.

And lets have a round of applause for Mr Maple syrup (or whatever his name is!)

My, you are being very personal tonight aren't you.

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Firegut Croydon 18 Feb 14 10.55pm
I don't get when people start saying stuff like "what right do you have to dictate what other fans do" I'm not happy for a stadium full of Palace fans to boo our own team Not happy for thousands of Palace fans to stream out the gates 15 minutes before the end of the match etc Not saying people can't do what they choose, but why should I and others of similar mind have to be happy about the sort of things above? Then you've got the point of atmosphere in this thread. It's the same principle, don't think he's saying "every Palace fan should do what I say". He's just saying it's so much better when there's a quality atmosphere. The club is getting praised left right and centre for it so he's not alone in thinking that.
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Firegut

Croydon 18 Feb 14 10.55pm

I don't get when people start saying stuff like "what right do you have to dictate what other fans do"

I'm not happy for a stadium full of Palace fans to boo our own team

Not happy for thousands of Palace fans to stream out the gates 15 minutes before the end of the match

etc

Not saying people can't do what they choose, but why should I and others of similar mind have to be happy about the sort of things above?

Then you've got the point of atmosphere in this thread. It's the same principle, don't think he's saying "every Palace fan should do what I say". He's just saying it's so much better when there's a quality atmosphere. The club is getting praised left right and centre for it so he's not alone in thinking that.

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Mapletree Croydon 18 Feb 14 11.08pm
Quote Firegut at 18 Feb 2014 10.55pm I don't get when people start saying stuff like "what right do you have to dictate what other fans do" I'm not happy for a stadium full of Palace fans to boo our own team Not happy for thousands of Palace fans to stream out the gates 15 minutes before the end of the match etc Not saying people can't do what they choose, but why should I and others of similar mind have to be happy about the sort of things above? Then you've got the point of atmosphere in this thread. It's the same principle, don't think he's saying "every Palace fan should do what I say". He's just saying it's so much better when there's a quality atmosphere. The club is getting praised left right and centre for it so he's not alone in thinking that. Phew, thought I was on my own there for a while My point really was that i dont want to knock any existing supporters. But maybe the new ones should be viewed as welcome fresh blood. They will only ever have seen the support at its current intensity so should just think its normal to very actively get behind the team.
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Mapletree

Croydon 18 Feb 14 11.08pm

Quote Firegut at 18 Feb 2014 10.55pm

I don't get when people start saying stuff like "what right do you have to dictate what other fans do"

I'm not happy for a stadium full of Palace fans to boo our own team

Not happy for thousands of Palace fans to stream out the gates 15 minutes before the end of the match

etc

Not saying people can't do what they choose, but why should I and others of similar mind have to be happy about the sort of things above?

Phew, thought I was on my own there for a while

My point really was that i dont want to knock any existing supporters. But maybe the new ones should be viewed as welcome fresh blood. They will only ever have seen the support at its current intensity so should just think its normal to very actively get behind the team.

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Palace15eagle London 19 Feb 14 9.46am
Quote est1905 at 18 Feb 2014 6.53pm Quote Mapletree at 15 Feb 2014 2.03pm There is a general view on HOL that new generation supporters won't fit in very well and won't add to the atmosphere. Thinking about that, the people that don't sing much - although they are improving - are primarily in the Main Stand. Most of those guys are long-standing supporters who just don't feel the need to sing. Hard to get them going and they feel more embarrassment about singing than about not singing. But the newbies are there to be moulded. Could it be that when they first arrive they will see the singing and assume they really should participate? And maybe many of them are coming because we have a reputation for atmosphere and will want to add to it. What right has any one got to even think they can 'mould' another fan anyway. We will all do what we want. Ever so sorry to disappoint! Except stand up, so maybe we can't do what we want... Your HOL best newcomer of the year 2013. My twitter account: [Link]
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Palace15eagle

London 19 Feb 14 9.46am

Quote est1905 at 18 Feb 2014 6.53pm

Quote Mapletree at 15 Feb 2014 2.03pm

There is a general view on HOL that new generation supporters won't fit in very well and won't add to the atmosphere.

What right has any one got to even think they can 'mould' another fan anyway. We will all do what we want. Ever so sorry to disappoint!

Except stand up, so maybe we can't do what we want...

Your HOL best newcomer of the year 2013.

My twitter account: [Link]

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Palace15eagle London 19 Feb 14 9.54am
Quote Mapletree at 18 Feb 2014 11.08pm Quote Firegut at 18 Feb 2014 10.55pm I don't get when people start saying stuff like "what right do you have to dictate what other fans do" I'm not happy for a stadium full of Palace fans to boo our own team Not happy for thousands of Palace fans to stream out the gates 15 minutes before the end of the match etc Not saying people can't do what they choose, but why should I and others of similar mind have to be happy about the sort of things above? Then you've got the point of atmosphere in this thread. It's the same principle, don't think he's saying "every Palace fan should do what I say". He's just saying it's so much better when there's a quality atmosphere. The club is getting praised left right and centre for it so he's not alone in thinking that. Phew, thought I was on my own there for a while My point really was that i dont want to knock any existing supporters. But maybe the new ones should be viewed as welcome fresh blood. They will only ever have seen the support at its current intensity so should just think its normal to very actively get behind the team. Exactly right. The longer we can keep our atmosphere up to the current levels the better. Luckily the Main Stand folk are a minority of the Palace support. Another thing, I don't quite understand how someone who just turns up, goes to their seat and expect to be royally entertained is as valued a fan as someone who is jumping up and down and creating a racket, because surely the latter are putting more effort into the way they support their team? Your HOL best newcomer of the year 2013. My twitter account: [Link]
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Palace15eagle

London 19 Feb 14 9.54am

Quote Mapletree at 18 Feb 2014 11.08pm

Quote Firegut at 18 Feb 2014 10.55pm

I don't get when people start saying stuff like "what right do you have to dictate what other fans do"

I'm not happy for a stadium full of Palace fans to boo our own team

Not happy for thousands of Palace fans to stream out the gates 15 minutes before the end of the match

etc

Not saying people can't do what they choose, but why should I and others of similar mind have to be happy about the sort of things above?

Phew, thought I was on my own there for a while

Exactly right. The longer we can keep our atmosphere up to the current levels the better. Luckily the Main Stand folk are a minority of the Palace support.

Another thing, I don't quite understand how someone who just turns up, goes to their seat and expect to be royally entertained is as valued a fan as someone who is jumping up and down and creating a racket, because surely the latter are putting more effort into the way they support their team?

Your HOL best newcomer of the year 2013.

My twitter account: [Link]

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gambler Kent 19 Feb 14 10.11am
"Sing up you c*s" as heard in the 80s 90s 00s and now. Always shouted out by a mouthy c* cos no one joins in with him when he starts singing. Cos he's the c*. Take that you c*..
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gambler

Kent 19 Feb 14 10.11am

"Sing up you c***s" as heard in the 80s 90s 00s and now.

Always shouted out by a mouthy c*** cos no one joins in with him when he starts singing. Cos he's the c***. Take that you c***..

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thommo1 Peckham 19 Feb 14 10.31am
What I cant understand although I try my best and understand people are different is how you can watch a emotive occasion as a Football match which involves your Team which is much more than 11 guys kicking a bag of air about on a field for some strange reason the team is like your son or brother who you really want to succeed and have internal feelings for that you cant explain, and as such I personally find it very hard to detach myself from the excitement and want of for example scoring a goal or winning and my external being reacts in this way ie movement of waving arms, punching the air, head in hands etc etc and of course using my vocals to express my internal feelings and to a large degree I am doing this on a sub conscious basis ie I cant stop myself, I would find it impossible to sit passively and just turn my head side to side watching the flow of play and saying 'oh good one' when we score or 'o dear' if we concede. So in summary what I am really saying is people are different and you will never get the non singers and non body movers to sing or body move lol, whereas the singers and body movers always will, what we have done is allow the closet singers and body movers to come out without embarrassment. DJ John Peel once said: "Supporting Palace has a certain cult value, like pretending that some Peruvian rock band is the best in the world."
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thommo1

Peckham 19 Feb 14 10.31am

What I cant understand although I try my best and understand people are different is how you can watch a emotive occasion as a Football match which involves your Team which is much more than 11 guys kicking a bag of air about on a field for some strange reason the team is like your son or brother who you really want to succeed and have internal feelings for that you cant explain,

and as such I personally find it very hard to detach myself from the excitement and want of for example scoring a goal or winning and my external being reacts in this way ie movement of waving arms, punching the air, head in hands etc etc and of course using my vocals to express my internal feelings and to a large degree I am doing this on a sub conscious basis ie I cant stop myself, I would find it impossible to sit passively and just turn my head side to side watching the flow of play and saying 'oh good one' when we score or 'o dear' if we concede.

So in summary what I am really saying is people are different and you will never get the non singers and non body movers to sing or body move lol, whereas the singers and body movers always will, what we have done is allow the closet singers and body movers to come out without embarrassment.

DJ John Peel once said: "Supporting Palace has a certain cult value, like pretending that some Peruvian rock band is the best in the world."

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Hoof Hearted 19 Feb 14 10.34am
Quote Palace15eagle at 19 Feb 2014 9.54am Quote Mapletree at 18 Feb 2014 11.08pm Quote Firegut at 18 Feb 2014 10.55pm I don't get when people start saying stuff like "what right do you have to dictate what other fans do" I'm not happy for a stadium full of Palace fans to boo our own team Not happy for thousands of Palace fans to stream out the gates 15 minutes before the end of the match etc Not saying people can't do what they choose, but why should I and others of similar mind have to be happy about the sort of things above? Then you've got the point of atmosphere in this thread. It's the same principle, don't think he's saying "every Palace fan should do what I say". He's just saying it's so much better when there's a quality atmosphere. The club is getting praised left right and centre for it so he's not alone in thinking that. Phew, thought I was on my own there for a while My point really was that i dont want to knock any existing supporters. But maybe the new ones should be viewed as welcome fresh blood. They will only ever have seen the support at its current intensity so should just think its normal to very actively get behind the team. Exactly right. The longer we can keep our atmosphere up to the current levels the better. Luckily the Main Stand folk are a minority of the Palace support. Another thing, I don't quite understand how someone who just turns up, goes to their seat and expect to be royally entertained is as valued a fan as someone who is jumping up and down and creating a racket, because surely the latter are putting more effort into the way they support their team? So a person that has supported the club for 50 years isn't as valued as the new energetic fan because old age, arthritis etc prevents him from jumping up and down?
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Hoof Hearted 19 Feb 14 10.34am

Quote Palace15eagle at 19 Feb 2014 9.54am

Quote Mapletree at 18 Feb 2014 11.08pm

Quote Firegut at 18 Feb 2014 10.55pm

I don't get when people start saying stuff like "what right do you have to dictate what other fans do"

I'm not happy for a stadium full of Palace fans to boo our own team

Not happy for thousands of Palace fans to stream out the gates 15 minutes before the end of the match

etc

Not saying people can't do what they choose, but why should I and others of similar mind have to be happy about the sort of things above?

Phew, thought I was on my own there for a while

Exactly right. The longer we can keep our atmosphere up to the current levels the better. Luckily the Main Stand folk are a minority of the Palace support.

So a person that has supported the club for 50 years isn't as valued as the new energetic fan because old age, arthritis etc prevents him from jumping up and down?

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