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Midlands Eagle 30 Aug 19 1.09pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle it is absolutely NOT Parliament that is trying to "thwart the will of the people". That is just the bs excuse of the arch Brexiteer. Parliament's job is not to allow a 3 year out of date referendum to determine policy if they believe it is not in the country's interests. Thus speaks someone who refuses to accept that he was on the losing side. Your quote doesn't make sense as it's irrelevant if Parliament isn't happy leaving the EU as that is what the referendum decided so they have to act on it. The fact that it has dragged on for three years isn't our fault but the MPs who have done everything possible to thwart it Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle That Bogus Johnson and his little band of self serving supporters are using that as their justification is simply to wind up people like you. Howe is Boris Johnson winding up people like me as from where I'm sitting it's apoplectic red in the face Remainers like yourself who are being wound up. Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle When will you people start to understand how representative democracy actually works? The "will of the people" is delegated to their representatives to determine. We don't determine what the policies are and then delegate MPs to carry them out. That is your understanding of democracy and as everyone else reading this thread understands you are on your own on that one despite the fact that you've been banging on about it since the dawn of time. If we have a referendum then I expect my MP to carry out the result or else resign as I want an MP that represents his constituents and his party not some maverick that does as he pleases.
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Midlands Eagle

30 Aug 19 1.09pm

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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

it is absolutely NOT Parliament that is trying to "thwart the will of the people". That is just the bs excuse of the arch Brexiteer. Parliament's job is not to allow a 3 year out of date referendum to determine policy if they believe it is not in the country's interests.

Thus speaks someone who refuses to accept that he was on the losing side. Your quote doesn't make sense as it's irrelevant if Parliament isn't happy leaving the EU as that is what the referendum decided so they have to act on it. The fact that it has dragged on for three years isn't our fault but the MPs who have done everything possible to thwart it

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

That Bogus Johnson and his little band of self serving supporters are using that as their justification is simply to wind up people like you.

Howe is Boris Johnson winding up people like me as from where I'm sitting it's apoplectic red in the face Remainers like yourself who are being wound up.

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

When will you people start to understand how representative democracy actually works?

The "will of the people" is delegated to their representatives to determine. We don't determine what the policies are and then delegate MPs to carry them out.

That is your understanding of democracy and as everyone else reading this thread understands you are on your own on that one despite the fact that you've been banging on about it since the dawn of time.

If we have a referendum then I expect my MP to carry out the result or else resign as I want an MP that represents his constituents and his party not some maverick that does as he pleases.

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Badger11 Beckenham 30 Aug 19 1.10pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle I am not the least bit "red with righteous indignation"! I am just observing and commenting on how I see things likely to develop. The time for indignation would only arrive if Parliament is somehow prevented from acting for that would really be a big deal and a constitutional crisis. For it is absolutely NOT Parliament that is trying to "thwart the will of the people". That is just the bs excuse of the arch Brexiteer. Parliament's job is not to allow a 3 year out of date referendum to determine policy if they believe it is not in the country's interests. That Bogus Johnson and his little band of self serving supporters are using that as their justification is simply to wind up people like you. They no more believe it than in the spaghetti monster. When will you people start to understand how representative democracy actually works? The "will of the people" is delegated to their representatives to determine. We don't determine what the policies are and then delegate MPs to carry them out. From what I read there is now unlikely to be a vote of no confidence as this could play into Johnson's hands and give him the chance not to resign but call an election after Oct 31. What seems most likely is that Parliament will force through legislation requiring their approval of any deal, or lack of a deal, prior to exit, thus amending Article 50. If necessary through all night and weekend sittings. The Speaker may yet have some actions up his sleeve. Then there are, of course, the legal challenges. Parliament will have it's way, as it must or our whole system of democracy would be torn apart. If Corbyn fails to call a vote of no confidence next week that is a disgrace and all Remainers should pillory him for it. You can't have it both ways if you don't like the government you vote it down not calling a vote and then expecting to get your way that is an affront to democracy. As for the timing of the GE you are assuming that Corbyn is unable to form a unity government? If a GE is called I for one would support election day being before 31st Oct so the new government has time to act. This would mean a change in the election timetable but I assume all parties would agree to that. If I was Boris I would go for an pre 31 Oct date because the GE will then become a referendum on Brexit and I think he will win because Corbyn is all over the place. It would actually suit Corbyn to hold a GE post 31 Oct so he can blame the Tories and then focus the campaign on the usual party issues where he is stronger. First things first he has to call a vote if he doesn't I do think a lot of Remainers will be upset with him. One more point
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Badger11

Beckenham 30 Aug 19 1.10pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I am not the least bit "red with righteous indignation"! I am just observing and commenting on how I see things likely to develop. The time for indignation would only arrive if Parliament is somehow prevented from acting for that would really be a big deal and a constitutional crisis.

For it is absolutely NOT Parliament that is trying to "thwart the will of the people". That is just the bs excuse of the arch Brexiteer. Parliament's job is not to allow a 3 year out of date referendum to determine policy if they believe it is not in the country's interests. That Bogus Johnson and his little band of self serving supporters are using that as their justification is simply to wind up people like you. They no more believe it than in the spaghetti monster.

When will you people start to understand how representative democracy actually works?

The "will of the people" is delegated to their representatives to determine. We don't determine what the policies are and then delegate MPs to carry them out.

From what I read there is now unlikely to be a vote of no confidence as this could play into Johnson's hands and give him the chance not to resign but call an election after Oct 31.

What seems most likely is that Parliament will force through legislation requiring their approval of any deal, or lack of a deal, prior to exit, thus amending Article 50. If necessary through all night and weekend sittings. The Speaker may yet have some actions up his sleeve. Then there are, of course, the legal challenges.

Parliament will have it's way, as it must or our whole system of democracy would be torn apart.

If Corbyn fails to call a vote of no confidence next week that is a disgrace and all Remainers should pillory him for it.

You can't have it both ways if you don't like the government you vote it down not calling a vote and then expecting to get your way that is an affront to democracy.

As for the timing of the GE you are assuming that Corbyn is unable to form a unity government? If a GE is called I for one would support election day being before 31st Oct so the new government has time to act. This would mean a change in the election timetable but I assume all parties would agree to that.

If I was Boris I would go for an pre 31 Oct date because the GE will then become a referendum on Brexit and I think he will win because Corbyn is all over the place.

It would actually suit Corbyn to hold a GE post 31 Oct so he can blame the Tories and then focus the campaign on the usual party issues where he is stronger.

First things first he has to call a vote if he doesn't I do think a lot of Remainers will be upset with him.

One more point

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 30 Aug 19 1.35pm
Originally posted by Phil’s Barber I don’t mean to be rude but I do find this last comment rather priceless and ironic coming from a remainer Edited by Phil’s Barber (30 Aug 2019 12.47pm) Why? Referendums are not part of our democracy and those that claim otherwise are lying. Our system depends on the will of the people we elect as MPs. Our job starts, and ends, when we choose them. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 30 Aug 19 1.35pm

Originally posted by Phil’s Barber

I don’t mean to be rude but I do find this last comment rather priceless and ironic coming from a remainer

Edited by Phil’s Barber (30 Aug 2019 12.47pm)

Why? Referendums are not part of our democracy and those that claim otherwise are lying.

Our system depends on the will of the people we elect as MPs. Our job starts, and ends, when we choose them.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Spiderman Horsham 30 Aug 19 1.45pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle Why? Referendums are not part of our democracy and those that claim otherwise are lying. Our system depends on the will of the people we elect as MPs. Our job starts, and ends, when we choose them. You really are becoming very tiresome. Funny I have not heard one MP (not even staunch remainers) supporting your view.
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Spiderman

Horsham 30 Aug 19 1.45pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Why? Referendums are not part of our democracy and those that claim otherwise are lying.

Our system depends on the will of the people we elect as MPs. Our job starts, and ends, when we choose them.

You really are becoming very tiresome. Funny I have not heard one MP (not even staunch remainers) supporting your view.

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dannyboy1978 30 Aug 19 1.53pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle Why? Referendums are not part of our democracy and those that claim otherwise are lying. Our system depends on the will of the people we elect as MPs. Our job starts, and ends, when we choose them. So leave constituencies have to depend on remain politicians to scupper brexit!!
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dannyboy1978

30 Aug 19 1.53pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Why? Referendums are not part of our democracy and those that claim otherwise are lying.

Our system depends on the will of the people we elect as MPs. Our job starts, and ends, when we choose them.

So leave constituencies have to depend on remain politicians to scupper brexit!!

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 30 Aug 19 1.55pm
Originally posted by the silurian so what was the point of the referendum then? Cameron and many others promised to honour the result of said referendum, the MPs voted to enact article 50 and then have spent the following 3 years doing their damndest to stop us leaving....ie..Soubry voted to honour the result several times and has now shown herself to be a lying bitch, even changing parties...didnt her constituents vote Conservative, well now she isnt one so she should stand down but she wont will she...nasty lying cow...as are most if not all MPs all in it for themselves....even when their constituency voted leave they subvert democracy for their own gains.....you wouldnt have said the referendum was advisory if you had won would you?? The point of the referendum was to quieten for ever the Eurosceptic wing of the Tory party and to stop the surge of Farage. It was a purely political act designed to protect the Tory party by Cameron which went badly wrong, made worse by promising to honour the result which was the only thing that gave it any legitimacy. Events though always create the need to review and revise commitments and it's Parliament's absolute duty to do so if it believes Cameron's promise no longer has validity. Soubry is acting exactly as a MP should act. She is a representative of her constituents. All of them, and not just those who voted for her. That includes those too young to vote, those who didn't bother to vote and those who voted against her. It's her job to act according to her conscience and not just the perceived wishes of her local electorate. She is a representative and not a delegate. If her party no longer matches her views then she had no option than to leave it and let the electorate decide at a GE whether they want her to continue, as a person of principle, to represent them. My position on referendums has not altered, and will not alter. I don't want them EVER to be used and think Parliament is the only place where matters ought be debated and decided. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 30 Aug 19 1.55pm

Originally posted by the silurian

so what was the point of the referendum then? Cameron and many others promised to honour the result of said referendum, the MPs voted to enact article 50 and then have spent the following 3 years doing their damndest to stop us leaving....ie..Soubry voted to honour the result several times and has now shown herself to be a lying bitch, even changing parties...didnt her constituents vote Conservative, well now she isnt one so she should stand down but she wont will she...nasty lying cow...as are most if not all MPs all in it for themselves....even when their constituency voted leave they subvert democracy for their own gains.....you wouldnt have said the referendum was advisory if you had won would you??

The point of the referendum was to quieten for ever the Eurosceptic wing of the Tory party and to stop the surge of Farage. It was a purely political act designed to protect the Tory party by Cameron which went badly wrong, made worse by promising to honour the result which was the only thing that gave it any legitimacy. Events though always create the need to review and revise commitments and it's Parliament's absolute duty to do so if it believes Cameron's promise no longer has validity.

Soubry is acting exactly as a MP should act. She is a representative of her constituents. All of them, and not just those who voted for her. That includes those too young to vote, those who didn't bother to vote and those who voted against her. It's her job to act according to her conscience and not just the perceived wishes of her local electorate. She is a representative and not a delegate. If her party no longer matches her views then she had no option than to leave it and let the electorate decide at a GE whether they want her to continue, as a person of principle, to represent them.

My position on referendums has not altered, and will not alter. I don't want them EVER to be used and think Parliament is the only place where matters ought be debated and decided.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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the silurian The garden of England.(not really) 30 Aug 19 1.58pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle The point of the referendum was to quieten for ever the Eurosceptic wing of the Tory party and to stop the surge of Farage. It was a purely political act designed to protect the Tory party by Cameron which went badly wrong, made worse by promising to honour the result which was the only thing that gave it any legitimacy. Events though always create the need to review and revise commitments and it's Parliament's absolute duty to do so if it believes Cameron's promise no longer has validity. Soubry is acting exactly as a MP should act. She is a representative of her constituents. All of them, and not just those who voted for her. That includes those too young to vote, those who didn't bother to vote and those who voted against her. It's her job to act according to her conscience and not just the perceived wishes of her local electorate. She is a representative and not a delegate. If her party no longer matches her views then she had no option than to leave it and let the electorate decide at a GE whether they want her to continue, as a person of principle, to represent them. My position on referendums has not altered, and will not alter. I don't want them EVER to be used and think Parliament is the only place where matters ought be debated and decided. 100% bulls*** fromm you again Soubry was not elected for the party she now belongs to, she was elected as a conservative and should therefore give up her seat and fight a by election, except shes not brave enough to do so...she was elected to represent her constituents which she clearly is not doing!
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the silurian

The garden of England.(not really) 30 Aug 19 1.58pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

My position on referendums has not altered, and will not alter. I don't want them EVER to be used and think Parliament is the only place where matters ought be debated and decided.

100% bulls*** fromm you again
Soubry was not elected for the party she now belongs to, she was elected as a conservative and should therefore give up her seat and fight a by election, except shes not brave enough to do so...she was elected to represent her constituents which she clearly is not doing!

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 30 Aug 19 2.01pm
Originally posted by palace_in_frogland You really are the most supercilious and condescending boor, Wisbech. (Card me if you like, it needed to be said. ) Maybe, to some, but it doesn't stop me being right does it? That many here don't understand that we don't have a direct democracy in the UK but a Parliamentary one, is just very sad. It isn't though my fault. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 30 Aug 19 2.01pm

Originally posted by palace_in_frogland

You really are the most supercilious and condescending boor, Wisbech.

(Card me if you like, it needed to be said. )

Maybe, to some, but it doesn't stop me being right does it?

That many here don't understand that we don't have a direct democracy in the UK but a Parliamentary one, is just very sad. It isn't though my fault.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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steeleye20 Croydon 30 Aug 19 2.04pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle Maybe, to some, but it doesn't stop me being right does it? That many here don't understand that we don't have a direct democracy in the UK but a Parliamentary one, is just very sad. It isn't though my fault. Hands off Wisbech !!!!!! Opponents must learn to do detail when engaging, abuse is no good to anybody.
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steeleye20

Croydon 30 Aug 19 2.04pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Maybe, to some, but it doesn't stop me being right does it?

That many here don't understand that we don't have a direct democracy in the UK but a Parliamentary one, is just very sad. It isn't though my fault.

Hands off Wisbech !!!!!!

Opponents must learn to do detail when engaging, abuse is no good to anybody.

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 30 Aug 19 2.04pm
Originally posted by the silurian 100% bulls*** fromm you again Soubry was not elected for the party she now belongs to, she was elected as a conservative and should therefore give up her seat and fight a by election, except shes not brave enough to do so...she was elected to represent her constituents which she clearly is not doing! MPS are not elected to represent Parties. They are elected to represent constituencies and ALL their constituents. For the umpteenth time we don't send delegates to Parliament. We send representatives. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 30 Aug 19 2.04pm

Originally posted by the silurian

MPS are not elected to represent Parties. They are elected to represent constituencies and ALL their constituents. For the umpteenth time we don't send delegates to Parliament. We send representatives.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 30 Aug 19 2.08pm
Originally posted by Midlands Eagle That is your understanding of democracy and as everyone else reading this thread understands you are on your own on that one despite the fact that you've been banging on about it since the dawn of time. If we have a referendum then I expect my MP to carry out the result or else resign as I want an MP that represents his constituents and his party not some maverick that does as he pleases. It isn't though MY understanding of OUR democracy is it? It IS our system, whether you like it or not, or whether no-one else here believes me or not. You cannot change facts. You can expect your MP to do whatever you like but that doesn't mean they must or indeed ought to. Some may, others won't. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 30 Aug 19 2.08pm

Originally posted by Midlands Eagle

If we have a referendum then I expect my MP to carry out the result or else resign as I want an MP that represents his constituents and his party not some maverick that does as he pleases.

It isn't though MY understanding of OUR democracy is it?

It IS our system, whether you like it or not, or whether no-one else here believes me or not.

You cannot change facts.

You can expect your MP to do whatever you like but that doesn't mean they must or indeed ought to. Some may, others won't.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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steeleye20 Croydon 30 Aug 19 2.12pm
The chancellor, Sajid Javid, was not informed in advance about the sacking of one of his senior advisers by Boris Johnson’s strategist Dominic Cummings, it has emerged. Sonia Khan, Javid’s media adviser, was escorted from No 10 by a police officer after being accused of misleading Cummings over her contact with individuals close to the former chancellor Philip Hammond, who has been trying to block a no-deal Brexit. Cummings ruling Johnston, even has the police and as we have seen this week the monarchy. What democracy does he think he is suspending?
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steeleye20

Croydon 30 Aug 19 2.12pm

The chancellor, Sajid Javid, was not informed in advance about the sacking of one of his senior advisers by Boris Johnson’s strategist Dominic Cummings, it has emerged.

Sonia Khan, Javid’s media adviser, was escorted from No 10 by a police officer after being accused of misleading Cummings over her contact with individuals close to the former chancellor Philip Hammond, who has been trying to block a no-deal Brexit.

Cummings ruling Johnston, even has the police and as we have seen this week the monarchy.

What democracy does he think he is suspending?

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