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Teddy Eagle 25 Sep 23 8.01pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Not to my mind it isn’t. We knew there would be consequences, some of which were unquantifiable but others for which some estimates were possible. The judgement seems to have been that unpleasant although they would be that they were survivable and, on balance, presented a least bad option than risking any of the alternatives. I say we but the truth is that none of us carried the responsibilities involved. Looking at things from the outside and thinking you know better is easy. Actually doing things is hard. I have no time at all for Johnson and the government he led. I thought it one of the worst in my lifetime but at least he acted responsibly over the way the pandemic strategy was developed, even if he failed to follow that strategy himself. Your remark about the vaccines is not correct. Although the mNRA vaccines had not been used on humans and was relatively new technology there was a great deal of confidence that it could and would deliver answers provided it was fully resourced. The way this was done was a terrific tribute to the way the world can cooperate in a crisis and a beacon of hope for our future. I expect movies to be made about it in time as there are stories to be told that will inspire future generations. WEF and globalisation conspiracy theorists ought to hang their heads in shame. It was still a huge gamble that an effective vaccine would be developed within a reasonable timeframe.
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 25 Sep 23 8.42pm | |
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Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
It was still a huge gamble that an effective vaccine would be developed within a reasonable timeframe. I don’t think there was any gamble involved. The industry was sure it would work. The issue was the scale needed and that demanded commitment and very hard work. That several separate efforts were made further improved the chances. Who do you think paid the highest price? The young perhaps, who have the time to rebuild and recover? There will always been inequality of impact whatever you do. The selfish were those who could have been vaccinated but chose not to, thus putting themselves and others at greater risk and loading potential additional strain upon our health services. The excess deaths we are now seeing would have been lessened if the selfish had joined in the national effort. They of course will deny it and hide behind their fig leaf excuse of personal freedom.
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Teddy Eagle 25 Sep 23 9.08pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
I don’t think there was any gamble involved. The industry was sure it would work. The issue was the scale needed and that demanded commitment and very hard work. That several separate efforts were made further improved the chances. Who do you think paid the highest price? The young perhaps, who have the time to rebuild and recover? There will always been inequality of impact whatever you do. The selfish were those who could have been vaccinated but chose not to, thus putting themselves and others at greater risk and loading potential additional strain upon our health services. The excess deaths we are now seeing would have been lessened if the selfish had joined in the national effort. They of course will deny it and hide behind their fig leaf excuse of personal freedom. The medical experts were also confident that hundreds of thousands would die. We don't know what would have happened without lockdown but we also don't know what would have happened if the vaccine hadn't been effective;lockdown until one was developed?
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 25 Sep 23 9.53pm | |
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Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
The medical experts were also confident that hundreds of thousands would die. We don't know what would have happened without lockdown but we also don't know what would have happened if the vaccine hadn't been effective;lockdown until one was developed? It depends on what you mean about medical experts thinking hundreds of thousands would die. Across the world? Directly or indirectly? No one knew. There were those who tried to estimate possible worst case scenarios that were then picked up and used as scare stories. No one could either be 100% sure of anything but there was a real confidence that the vaccine development would work and so the resources were provided to ensure that when it did we were ready to move quickly. It did and we did. Judgements had to be made. They can always be considered incorrect and could be subsequently proved incorrect but they still need to be made. They were, and we are where we are. I am glad we did. One of my granddaughters fits your highest price category. She got supported in many ways and although very isolated for long periods has come out the other side ok. She managed to feed herself and her young family, kept her home warm and her children’s education going. She missed her friends but the internet kept them together better than might have been expected. Then they celebrated when it relaxed.
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Teddy Eagle 25 Sep 23 10.10pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
It depends on what you mean about medical experts thinking hundreds of thousands would die. Across the world? Directly or indirectly? No one knew. There were those who tried to estimate possible worst case scenarios that were then picked up and used as scare stories. No one could either be 100% sure of anything but there was a real confidence that the vaccine development would work and so the resources were provided to ensure that when it did we were ready to move quickly. It did and we did. Judgements had to be made. They can always be considered incorrect and could be subsequently proved incorrect but they still need to be made. They were, and we are where we are. I am glad we did. One of my granddaughters fits your highest price category. She got supported in many ways and although very isolated for long periods has come out the other side ok. She managed to feed herself and her young family, kept her home warm and her children’s education going. She missed her friends but the internet kept them together better than might have been expected. Then they celebrated when it relaxed. I'm glad your granddaughter came though reasonably OK but many, many others didn't do so well.
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 25 Sep 23 10.54pm | |
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Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
I'm glad your granddaughter came though reasonably OK but many, many others didn't do so well. Bet it was fun though. My local started doing takeaways and supplying pints whilst they were prepared. Quite lively at times.
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georgenorman 26 Sep 23 6.42am | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
It depends on what you mean about medical experts thinking hundreds of thousands would die. Across the world? Directly or indirectly? No one knew. There were those who tried to estimate possible worst case scenarios that were then picked up and used as scare stories. No one could either be 100% sure of anything but there was a real confidence that the vaccine development would work and so the resources were provided to ensure that when it did we were ready to move quickly. It did and we did. Judgements had to be made. They can always be considered incorrect and could be subsequently proved incorrect but they still need to be made. They were, and we are where we are. I am glad we did. One of my granddaughters fits your highest price category. She got supported in many ways and although very isolated for long periods has come out the other side ok. She managed to feed herself and her young family, kept her home warm and her children’s education going. She missed her friends but the internet kept them together better than might have been expected. Then they celebrated when it relaxed. Did she have a gas fire?
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Stirlingsays 26 Sep 23 6.55am | |
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Originally posted by georgenorman
Did she have a gas fire?
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 02 Oct 23 12.16pm | |
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It's nice to see real scientific achievements being recognised and acclaimed for making the contribution to our welfare that these two have. I wonder how the likes of Dr John Campbell will try to downplay this.
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Forest Hillbilly in a hidey-hole 03 Oct 23 8.39pm | |
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"The government's former chief scientific adviser criticised Boris Johnson's "impossible flip-flopping" and "bipolar decision-making" in diary entries released to the Covid inquiry. Sir Patrick Vallance also wrote of "chaos as usual" in Downing Street after a meeting on social-distancing. The entries were read out at the start of stage two of the inquiry, which will examine the political decision-making." (BBC)
I disengage, I turn the page. |
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 03 Oct 23 9.17pm | |
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Originally posted by Forest Hillbilly
"The government's former chief scientific adviser criticised Boris Johnson's "impossible flip-flopping" and "bipolar decision-making" in diary entries released to the Covid inquiry. Sir Patrick Vallance also wrote of "chaos as usual" in Downing Street after a meeting on social-distancing. The entries were read out at the start of stage two of the inquiry, which will examine the political decision-making." (BBC) Hardly a surprise, given his character. Rather goes to prove how well the advisers did in keeping everything as calm and purposeful as they did.
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Forest Hillbilly in a hidey-hole 04 Oct 23 7.04am | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Hardly a surprise, given his character. Rather goes to prove how well the advisers did in keeping everything as calm and purposeful as they did. The quote in bold. Would that be the advisors who told lies in a good way ? There is just no discussion with you. Your mind is made up before you enter into a conversation. Why bother ? It will be interesting to hear 'Sir' Chris Whitty's testimony, which will obviously be devoid of influence that he was paid by the Government and then 'honoured'.
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