Why is it a charlatan act to report figures?

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Excess deaths over an average isn't something that can be screwed around with or matters dependent upon different systems.....Deaths are either over an average or they aren't. These are not small numbers, the idea that it can be dismissed as expected is highly disingenuous.....No one was informed about this.

Indeed, logic would infer that most of the people who would die around covid would be vulnerable health wise. It needs to be answered why the distribution of deaths is seen in most age groups.

Excuse, after excuse after excuse.

There are serious problems and questions and some people just aren't capable of addressing them honestly.

Edited by Stirlingsays (25 Sep 2023 9.45am)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

That link explains things very well. Thanks for finding it.

It has never been suggested this is down to Covid itself, but due to the impact of Covid on our health services. Services that were already at a crisis point.

What the situation would have been without Covid can only be guessed but we may still have seen higher mortality than in the previous years. Covid has just made things worse and is continuing to do so, with all the backlogs that now exist.

I am pleased to see the specific denial of any contribution from the vaccines, which are what the conspiracy theorists want you to believe are responsible.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

We've been here before.

No one argues that the measures taken produced these consequences.

What is argued that any other strategy would have necessarily produced a better outcome. There are very good reasons for believing the opposite and that if we had not locked down our situation, undoubtedly bad, would have been very much worse.

Looking back and objectively trying to learn the lessons is why we are having a thorough, unemotional enquiry.

Just stating that the lockdowns were responsible is stating the obvious.

Others though do want to blame the vaccines, usually those opposed to them from the start, those who distrust anything official or scientific or those who encourage such attitudes by spreading misinformation in order to enrich themselves.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

I don’t find it difficult to defend at all. We know it has had consequences and we knew it would when they were introduced. We don’t know what the consequences would have been if we didn’t lockdown. It’s only theory. Comparisons with other countries are only valid if the circumstances are similar, and there aren’t any.

If you drive into a brick wall at speed you know there will be a mess and possibly casualties. If the alternative is going over a cliff edge with no knowledge of what lies below you will probably opt to drive into the wall.

We made the best decision we could with the knowledge we had at the time. Whether we would do exactly the same again with the knowledge we have now and with that which the enquiry reveals, is altogether a different matter.

No precedent has been set. Pandemics are infrequent events. Lessons will be learned and better preparations made.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Not to my mind it isn’t.

We knew there would be consequences, some of which were unquantifiable but others for which some estimates were possible. The judgement seems to have been that unpleasant although they would be that they were survivable and, on balance, presented a least bad option than risking any of the alternatives.

I say we but the truth is that none of us carried the responsibilities involved. Looking at things from the outside and thinking you know better is easy. Actually doing things is hard. I have no time at all for Johnson and the government he led. I thought it one of the worst in my lifetime but at least he acted responsibly over the way the pandemic strategy was developed, even if he failed to follow that strategy himself.

Your remark about the vaccines is not correct. Although the mNRA vaccines had not been used on humans and was relatively new technology there was a great deal of confidence that it could and would deliver answers provided it was fully resourced. The way this was done was a terrific tribute to the way the world can cooperate in a crisis and a beacon of hope for our future. I expect movies to be made about it in time as there are stories to be told that will inspire future generations.

WEF and globalisation conspiracy theorists ought to hang their heads in shame.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.