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Stirlingsays 27 Apr 22 10.36pm | |
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Originally posted by Mapletree
Generals who speak out of turn tend to ‘depart their roles’ immediately in Russia. He did not Perhaps you also believe the Ukrainians attacked Transnistria… Do you have a relatable example?
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Mapletree Croydon 27 Apr 22 10.47pm | |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Do you have a relatable example? The Ukrainians claim around 8 Russian Generals have been moved out since the war began. Putin is not shy of getting rid of those that show incompetence.
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Stirlingsays 28 Apr 22 12.43am | |
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Originally posted by Mapletree
The Ukrainians claim around 8 Russian Generals have been moved out since the war began. Putin is not shy of getting rid of those that show incompetence. Even if that's true, that's no evidence for 'speaking out of turn' is it. You could have just said, 'no, I don't'. Why do we have to play these silly games. Edited by Stirlingsays (28 Apr 2022 1.18am)
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BlueJay UK 28 Apr 22 1.40am | |
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Originally posted by Mapletree
You seem to have overlooked that Russia is the invader with a stated aim to move on to Moldova. If a sovereign state asks for help against an invader do we ignore that? An imperialist invader that has been poisoning people on our shores and has a history of being indiscriminate about killing civilians, most notably in Syria. It's a truism that a country acting in such an extreme fashion will not stop at a little piece of land here or there. That there is any moral or limiting component to Putin's actions is of course a joke. If they view their invasion of Ukraine as a success they will push on. They literally showed an 'invasion map' on live TV courtesy of Putin's dim Belarusian side bitch. Moldova has everything Putin needs to paint a target on. Non NATO, non EU, a Russian separatist region, little in the way of a functioning military. The only thing stopping Putin is an army of Ukrainians between it and Russia. The West is rightly doing its bit to ensure a significant cost both economically and militarily to Putin's actions - as they well should. That may make them think twice about a repeat. Appeasement will not. The beginnings of a 'peace process' involve not continuing to blow innocent civilians to pieces. That isn't difficult to achieve. The ball is in Russia's court.
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BlueJay UK 28 Apr 22 1.53am | |
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Originally posted by Ouzo Dan
haha They're not sending their best Their propaganda wing is reaching 'Baghdad Bob' levels at this stage.
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Stirlingsays 28 Apr 22 2.06am | |
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Suggestions of Russia wishing to open multiple fronts may or may not be true. I doubt it personally but nothing would surprise me. However, this could also be said of Zelensky's advisors. On March 27th Georgia was encouraged by the Ukraine security council to open a second front against Russia. Georgia refused. In my view, the Ukraine and Nato should be focusing on a negotiated peace with the necessary compromises rather than encouraging a long attritional war that carries great risks for everybody and severe economic harm. The sooner this war can be stopped the better, not just for Europe but for the wider world....We will suffer here but in vulnerable places like Africa many more people could starve if wheat production doesn't come back online. Edited by Stirlingsays (28 Apr 2022 2.07am)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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BlueJay UK 28 Apr 22 2.20am | |
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If true, I'd say that Georgia were right to refuse, as I see no benefit to other countries getting drawn into direct conflict with Russia. That said, I can see why the Security Council Secretary posited it, as they are a country fighting for their long term survival against a military that has made significant missteps. This would be more of a move for get Russia to back off than an equivalent to their expansionism. Though as I say and I'm sure most agree any new chapter of aggression has more down sides than possible ups. Hopefully this invasion will eventually burn itself out due to the actual and potential costs to all.
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Mapletree Croydon 28 Apr 22 8.40am | |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Suggestions of Russia wishing to open multiple fronts may or may not be true. I doubt it personally but nothing would surprise me. However, this could also be said of Zelensky's advisors. On March 27th Georgia was encouraged by the Ukraine security council to open a second front against Russia. Georgia refused. In my view, the Ukraine and Nato should be focusing on a negotiated peace with the necessary compromises rather than encouraging a long attritional war that carries great risks for everybody and severe economic harm. The sooner this war can be stopped the better, not just for Europe but for the wider world....We will suffer here but in vulnerable places like Africa many more people could starve if wheat production doesn't come back online. Edited by Stirlingsays (28 Apr 2022 2.07am) Clearly Ukraine will try anything to help its cause. Like Moldova Georgia has Russian separatist regions and it may be that the argument is eventually Russia will come for it should Ukraine be overrun. Similar to Moldova. The three fighting together would be stronger than letting Russia take them one at a time.
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Mapletree Croydon 28 Apr 22 8.46am | |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Even if that's true, that's no evidence for 'speaking out of turn' is it. You could have just said, 'no, I don't'. Why do we have to play these silly games. I was originally thinking of Sergey Beseda but he is slightly different as he was arrested (maybe) for giving poor information to Putin. Do you really not believe that his Generals are running scared of Putin then? Edited by Stirlingsays (28 Apr 2022 1.18am)
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Stirlingsays 28 Apr 22 11.12am | |
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Originally posted by Mapletree
Clearly Ukraine will try anything to help its cause. Like Moldova Georgia has Russian separatist regions and it may be that the argument is eventually Russia will come for it should Ukraine be overrun. Similar to Moldova. The three fighting together would be stronger than letting Russia take them one at a time. Sure, however I think Putin learnt early on that Kiev's government wasn't going to collapse and that taking the Donbas and 'ethnic' Russian populated regions was by far the most realistic aims. So personally I don't see Russia trying to over-run Ukraine now. Non Nato countries joining the war would be considerable escalation. We could guess who would be behind that and in who's interest it was....many possibilities there on many sides. As I say, for me, I'm less interested in who wins borderlands than I am for a peace deal when humanity itself could be blown to hell. Regardless of how we got here I recognise that the Ukraine are the invaded country and that many innocent people have died. There are no good outcomes only least worse ones....the politics of the possible that saves the most lives.
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Stirlingsays 28 Apr 22 11.16am | |
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Originally posted by Mapletree
Do you really not believe that his Generals are running scared of Putin then? I don't think Putin is quite Stalin, but I take your point. I'm just stressing Occam's razor and what is knowable....but we are all playing speculation here, some rationalisations may be more likely than others but it's speculation nevertheless.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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Grumbles 28 Apr 22 6.11pm | |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Suggestions of Russia wishing to open multiple fronts may or may not be true. I doubt it personally but nothing would surprise me. However, this could also be said of Zelensky's advisors. On March 27th Georgia was encouraged by the Ukraine security council to open a second front against Russia. Georgia refused. In my view, the Ukraine and Nato should be focusing on a negotiated peace with the necessary compromises rather than encouraging a long attritional war that carries great risks for everybody and severe economic harm. The sooner this war can be stopped the better, not just for Europe but for the wider world....We will suffer here but in vulnerable places like Africa many more people could starve if wheat production doesn't come back online. Edited by Stirlingsays (28 Apr 2022 2.07am) Interfax as a source really?
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