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Jimenez SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 13 Aug 19 1.45pm
Originally posted by Mapletree I don't think you are keeping up The USA does nothing that isn't in its interests So it uses Europe as a staging post for its ambitions, so what? Basically it's cheaper than a couple of extra aircraft carriers. You'd be speaking Russian if it wasn't for the USA. Although know doubt you have learned that language to add to you're burgeoning repertoire.... Pro USA & Israel
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Jimenez

SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 13 Aug 19 1.45pm

Originally posted by Mapletree

I don't think you are keeping up

The USA does nothing that isn't in its interests

So it uses Europe as a staging post for its ambitions, so what? Basically it's cheaper than a couple of extra aircraft carriers.

You'd be speaking Russian if it wasn't for the USA. Although know doubt you have learned that language to add to you're burgeoning repertoire....

Pro USA & Israel

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Badger11 Beckenham 13 Aug 19 1.45pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle As the Trump administration don't do trade deals which seek to benefit anyone but themselves it must be blindingly obvious to all except the most naive Brexiteer that this is a con. Trump and his backers want to see the EU break up. Pushing a "no deal" Brexit over the line helps achieve that. Putin's Russia also wants to see the EU break up so they can start to reclaim their influence over Eastern Europe. The EU is an economic threat to both the USA and Russia hence the squeeze. I don't want us to start lowering our standards to US levels but we would probably have no alternative if we fail to get a deal which sees us agreeing to continue to abide by the EU ones. Just independently stating we will follow them won't be enough. We need the EU to endorse them for them to be accepted in our trade. A no deal Brexit therefore delivers us into the waiting arms of Trump who will expect to sell us things we don't actually want or need, at higher prices than we could have got from the EU, and at lower standards. Great job. We don't have to do a deal with the US and if it is a bad one surely the House of Commons will reject it. After all the MPs are not delegates and are free to make their own decisions in the best interest of the country? One more point
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Badger11

Beckenham 13 Aug 19 1.45pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

As the Trump administration don't do trade deals which seek to benefit anyone but themselves it must be blindingly obvious to all except the most naive Brexiteer that this is a con.

Trump and his backers want to see the EU break up. Pushing a "no deal" Brexit over the line helps achieve that.

Putin's Russia also wants to see the EU break up so they can start to reclaim their influence over Eastern Europe.

The EU is an economic threat to both the USA and Russia hence the squeeze.

I don't want us to start lowering our standards to US levels but we would probably have no alternative if we fail to get a deal which sees us agreeing to continue to abide by the EU ones. Just independently stating we will follow them won't be enough. We need the EU to endorse them for them to be accepted in our trade.

A no deal Brexit therefore delivers us into the waiting arms of Trump who will expect to sell us things we don't actually want or need, at higher prices than we could have got from the EU, and at lower standards. Great job.

We don't have to do a deal with the US and if it is a bad one surely the House of Commons will reject it. After all the MPs are not delegates and are free to make their own decisions in the best interest of the country?

One more point

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Jimenez SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 13 Aug 19 1.47pm
Originally posted by Badger11 We don't have to do a deal with the US and if it is a bad one surely the House of Commons will reject it. After all the MPs are not delegates and are free to make their own decisions in the best interest of the country? Blimey you sound like Wisbech, Badger.... Pro USA & Israel
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Jimenez

SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 13 Aug 19 1.47pm

Originally posted by Badger11

We don't have to do a deal with the US and if it is a bad one surely the House of Commons will reject it. After all the MPs are not delegates and are free to make their own decisions in the best interest of the country?

Blimey you sound like Wisbech, Badger....

Pro USA & Israel

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Badger11 Beckenham 13 Aug 19 2.00pm
Originally posted by Jimenez Blimey you sound like Wisbech, Badger.... Just my little joke One more point
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Badger11

Beckenham 13 Aug 19 2.00pm

Originally posted by Jimenez

Blimey you sound like Wisbech, Badger....

Just my little joke

One more point

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Stirlingsays 13 Aug 19 2.06pm
Originally posted by Jimenez You'd be speaking Russian if it wasn't for the USA. Although know doubt you have learned that language to add to you're burgeoning repertoire.... A certain political demographic have little care for the historical and cultural ties between this part of the world and the US. Indeed, they appear to argue against the US any opportunity they get. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

13 Aug 19 2.06pm

Originally posted by Jimenez

You'd be speaking Russian if it wasn't for the USA. Although know doubt you have learned that language to add to you're burgeoning repertoire....

A certain political demographic have little care for the historical and cultural ties between this part of the world and the US.

Indeed, they appear to argue against the US any opportunity they get.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Stirlingsays 13 Aug 19 2.10pm
Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow I don’t think he was complaining about it, just highlighting that the idea that Trump is going to hand us a great deal is a pipe dream. Negotiations with the EU are a good comparison; look how those have gone and the deal we’re going to end up with... why will we get on any better with the US? It's not a matter of exclusivity. The EU, by over playing hardball have created a circumstance and opportunity for the US and others....plus trade with the EU will still continue but at a much lower percent on WTO. I've seen the deal put on the table by the EU now we will see what Trump offers. And if you are talking who I prefer between the EU project and the US....it isn't even a contest. Edited by Stirlingsays (13 Aug 2019 2.11pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

13 Aug 19 2.10pm

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

I don’t think he was complaining about it, just highlighting that the idea that Trump is going to hand us a great deal is a pipe dream.

Negotiations with the EU are a good comparison; look how those have gone and the deal we’re going to end up with... why will we get on any better with the US?

It's not a matter of exclusivity.

The EU, by over playing hardball have created a circumstance and opportunity for the US and others....plus trade with the EU will still continue but at a much lower percent on WTO.

I've seen the deal put on the table by the EU now we will see what Trump offers.

And if you are talking who I prefer between the EU project and the US....it isn't even a contest.

Edited by Stirlingsays (13 Aug 2019 2.11pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 13 Aug 19 2.19pm
Originally posted by Badger11 We don't have to do a deal with the US and if it is a bad one surely the House of Commons will reject it. After all the MPs are not delegates and are free to make their own decisions in the best interest of the country? You would hope so but the current system seems unfit for purpose, especially in the current climate. It seems a government could steam roller a deal through with little, if any, parliamentary scrutiny:- [Link] That though won't stop the political claims of "the grass being greener on the other side of the fence" being trotted out as the jam for tomorrow if we crash out of the EU. Nor will it stop those who point out that it's all bs being described as "enemies of the people" who spread "fake news". You could write the script now. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 13 Aug 19 2.19pm

Originally posted by Badger11

You would hope so but the current system seems unfit for purpose, especially in the current climate. It seems a government could steam roller a deal through with little, if any, parliamentary scrutiny:-

[Link]

That though won't stop the political claims of "the grass being greener on the other side of the fence" being trotted out as the jam for tomorrow if we crash out of the EU. Nor will it stop those who point out that it's all bs being described as "enemies of the people" who spread "fake news". You could write the script now.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 13 Aug 19 2.26pm
Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow I don’t think he was complaining about it, just highlighting that the idea that Trump is going to hand us a great deal is a pipe dream. Negotiations with the EU are a good comparison; look how those have gone and the deal we’re going to end up with... why will we get on any better with the US? Negotiating with a begging bowl in your hand rarely works out well. However, negotiating a position in which we remain as members, provided our demands are satisfied, would be to negotiate from strength. Just saying! For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 13 Aug 19 2.26pm

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

I don’t think he was complaining about it, just highlighting that the idea that Trump is going to hand us a great deal is a pipe dream.

Negotiations with the EU are a good comparison; look how those have gone and the deal we’re going to end up with... why will we get on any better with the US?

Negotiating with a begging bowl in your hand rarely works out well.

However, negotiating a position in which we remain as members, provided our demands are satisfied, would be to negotiate from strength.

Just saying!

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Jimenez SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 13 Aug 19 2.57pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle Negotiating with a begging bowl in your hand rarely works out well. However, negotiating a position in which we remain as members, provided our demands are satisfied, would be to negotiate from strength. Just saying! Exactly. Teresa May's negotiation tactics to the EU nicely summed up. Pro USA & Israel
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Jimenez

SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 13 Aug 19 2.57pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Negotiating with a begging bowl in your hand rarely works out well.

However, negotiating a position in which we remain as members, provided our demands are satisfied, would be to negotiate from strength.

Just saying!

Exactly. Teresa May's negotiation tactics to the EU nicely summed up.

Pro USA & Israel

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 13 Aug 19 3.59pm
Originally posted by Jimenez Exactly. Teresa May's negotiation tactics to the EU nicely summed up. Not her fault was it? She didn't deal the cards she had to play with. As soon as the UK voted to leave the odds were always going to be stacked against us. Trying to play bluff when holding only a King high is usually a losing strategy against experienced opponents who know where the real strengths and weaknesses lie. The bluff strategy is what is being attempted now but the EU won't be blinking anytime soon, which is why Parliament must, and I think will, intervene to stop a disaster. It makes us look extremely foolish in the eyes of the world and diminishes our tattered reputation even further. It makes us look as though we are incapable of accepting the realities of a constantly changing world and are just looking back with longing for an age long since over. Allowing the blue rinses in the shires to choose an ex Eton toff like Johnson to be our PM just confirms how backward we must seem to everyone else. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 13 Aug 19 3.59pm

Originally posted by Jimenez

Exactly. Teresa May's negotiation tactics to the EU nicely summed up.

Not her fault was it?

She didn't deal the cards she had to play with.

As soon as the UK voted to leave the odds were always going to be stacked against us. Trying to play bluff when holding only a King high is usually a losing strategy against experienced opponents who know where the real strengths and weaknesses lie.

The bluff strategy is what is being attempted now but the EU won't be blinking anytime soon, which is why Parliament must, and I think will, intervene to stop a disaster. It makes us look extremely foolish in the eyes of the world and diminishes our tattered reputation even further. It makes us look as though we are incapable of accepting the realities of a constantly changing world and are just looking back with longing for an age long since over.

Allowing the blue rinses in the shires to choose an ex Eton toff like Johnson to be our PM just confirms how backward we must seem to everyone else.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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steeleye20 Croydon 13 Aug 19 4.24pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle Not her fault was it? She didn't deal the cards she had to play with. As soon as the UK voted to leave the odds were always going to be stacked against us. Trying to play bluff when holding only a King high is usually a losing strategy against experienced opponents who know where the real strengths and weaknesses lie. The bluff strategy is what is being attempted now but the EU won't be blinking anytime soon, which is why Parliament must, and I think will, intervene to stop a disaster. It makes us look extremely foolish in the eyes of the world and diminishes our tattered reputation even further. It makes us look as though we are incapable of accepting the realities of a constantly changing world and are just looking back with longing for an age long since over. Allowing the blue rinses in the shires to choose an ex Eton toff like Johnson to be our PM just confirms how backward we must seem to everyone else. The 'masses' are now fully taking in the 'Boris will deliver us from the EU' despite the fact that the extension was negotiated by his predecessor and nothing to do with him, and runs out anyway. 'Freedom from an unelected dictatorship' the leavers chant. Well they should know, because the UK is one.
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steeleye20

Croydon 13 Aug 19 4.24pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Not her fault was it?

She didn't deal the cards she had to play with.

Allowing the blue rinses in the shires to choose an ex Eton toff like Johnson to be our PM just confirms how backward we must seem to everyone else.

The 'masses' are now fully taking in the 'Boris will deliver us from the EU' despite the fact that the extension was negotiated by his predecessor and nothing to do with him, and runs out anyway.

'Freedom from an unelected dictatorship' the leavers chant.

Well they should know, because the UK is one.

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W12 13 Aug 19 4.29pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle Not her fault was it? She didn't deal the cards she had to play with. As soon as the UK voted to leave the odds were always going to be stacked against us. Trying to play bluff when holding only a King high is usually a losing strategy against experienced opponents who know where the real strengths and weaknesses lie. The bluff strategy is what is being attempted now but the EU won't be blinking anytime soon, which is why Parliament must, and I think will, intervene to stop a disaster. It makes us look extremely foolish in the eyes of the world and diminishes our tattered reputation even further. It makes us look as though we are incapable of accepting the realities of a constantly changing world and are just looking back with longing for an age long since over. Allowing the blue rinses in the shires to choose an ex Eton toff like Johnson to be our PM just confirms how backward we must seem to everyone else. Yes, negotiations were sabotaged by a bunch of remainers in government intent on staying in the EU if not via some form of BRINO treaty then actually revoking A50. The EU originally offered us a free trade deal (twice I believe). The negotiation should have gone like this: 1. Day 1 - The UK sets a date for departure 2. Day 2 - The UK puts in place a comprehensive plan for a WTO exit 3. Day 3 - The UK offers the EU reasonable terms on a free trade deal (rather than going cap in hand to Brussels) 4. Day x - The UK leaves the EU with or without a trade deal What do we have now? [Link] Basically remainers leave us no choice but to leave on WTO terms.
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W12 13 Aug 19 4.29pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Not her fault was it?

She didn't deal the cards she had to play with.

Allowing the blue rinses in the shires to choose an ex Eton toff like Johnson to be our PM just confirms how backward we must seem to everyone else.

Yes, negotiations were sabotaged by a bunch of remainers in government intent on staying in the EU if not via some form of BRINO treaty then actually revoking A50. The EU originally offered us a free trade deal (twice I believe).

The negotiation should have gone like this:

1. Day 1 - The UK sets a date for departure
2. Day 2 - The UK puts in place a comprehensive plan for a WTO exit
3. Day 3 - The UK offers the EU reasonable terms on a free trade deal (rather than going cap in hand to Brussels)
4. Day x - The UK leaves the EU with or without a trade deal

What do we have now?

[Link]

Basically remainers leave us no choice but to leave on WTO terms.

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