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 Stirlingsays  16 Feb 22 12.23pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
As I have little doubt that every "campaign" tries to obtain information on their opponents there really isn't anything to see here, other than an attention seeking, right wing, sensationalist presenter doing what he always does. Spin stories to suit an agenda. There's nothing new here. Trump complained because it suited him to present himself as a victim. When you have shown yourself to the world as someone prepared to ignore the democratic process to retain power you, or those who feed off you like Carlson, have no right to complain about being investigated. What's more serious is that the US security forces were concerned about Trump, seeking intelligence on him and passing their findings on to the civil authorities. Where they are in process, facing obstructionism and prevarication, but slowly edging their way to the courts. The double standards on display here are literally mind blowing. Firstly despite tens of millions and years of investigation the Democrats found no proof that Trump was engaged either in collusion with Putin or hacking Hillary's campaign. They deliberately wasted tax payer money fighting against a presidency with lies. However, in response, pretty much as soon as the FBI started investigating over the lies on Russiagate, evidence that the Democratic machine were feeding lies and was hacking Trump's campaign have been uncovered.....this was illegal. Evidence has been found that members of Hilary's campaign lied to the FBI on Russiagate....this was illegal. Both are detailed in the Carlson link. This is no 'spinning' these are facts. Check them out...it's not Carlson's fault that the Democratic media won't report when their own side breaks the law. There is no, 'playing the victim', Trump said that he was being hacked and was ridiculed by the leftist media for it.....BUT HE WAS RIGHT. Those who talk about 'conspiracy theories' have been found out to be covering for them. When the people complain about Trump over lying....they aren't always wrong.....However, when they themselves are liars they hold no credibility. What matters is what is true....not which side wins....Unfortunately some people can't accept that. Edited by Stirlingsays (16 Feb 2022 4.07pm)
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 16 Feb 22 11.05pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
The double standards on display here are literally mind blowing. Firstly despite tens of millions and years of investigation the Democrats found no proof that Trump was engaged either in collusion with Putin or hacking Hillary's campaign. They deliberately wasted tax payer money fighting against a presidency with lies. However, in response, pretty much as soon as the FBI started investigating over the lies on Russiagate, evidence that the Democratic machine were feeding lies and was hacking Trump's campaign have been uncovered.....this was illegal. Evidence has been found that members of Hilary's campaign lied to the FBI on Russiagate....this was illegal. Both are detailed in the Carlson link. This is no 'spinning' these are facts. Check them out...it's not Carlson's fault that the Democratic media won't report when their own side breaks the law. There is no, 'playing the victim', Trump said that he was being hacked and was ridiculed by the leftist media for it.....BUT HE WAS RIGHT. Those who talk about 'conspiracy theories' have been found out to be covering for them. When the people complain about Trump over lying....they aren't always wrong.....However, when they themselves are liars they hold no credibility. What matters is what is true....not which side wins....Unfortunately some people can't accept that. Edited by Stirlingsays (16 Feb 2022 4.07pm) Oh, the irony! Of course the evidence was found. It just was not allowed to reach the public because of Barr's ruling. It still exists and will, in the fullness of time, be fully presented. Trump and/or his campaign colluded with Putin. The 5 eyes intelligence services know it. Be patient. There is now an attempt by Trump allies to whitewash all of that via their own "enquiry". It won't work. It may turn up an occasional embarrassment, and it seems one might have been found, but even that is questionable, but nothing on the scale of those by Trump. Mountains are being compared to molehills! Of course, it's not being reported. You don't report on political games of this sort. Trump was undoubtedly being hacked. Intelligence services concerned about, even the suspicion of, the involvement of malign foreign influence with a Presidential candidate, let alone a President, have a duty to intercept communications. That an opposing campaign would do the same is pretty obvious. Trump's campaign, aided by the Russians, was at it with Clinton. These aren't conspiracy theories. These are the realities of US politics today. To be officially denied of course. Opposition research is the polite name. That's what's true. It's a dirty game, but one you don't involve your country's enemies in.
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Teddy Eagle  16 Feb 22 11.34pm |
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| Stirlingsays 16 Feb 22 11.56pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Oh, the irony! Of course the evidence was found. It just was not allowed to reach the public because of Barr's ruling. It still exists and will, in the fullness of time, be fully presented. Trump and/or his campaign colluded with Putin. The 5 eyes intelligence services know it. Be patient. There is now an attempt by Trump allies to whitewash all of that via their own "enquiry". It won't work. It may turn up an occasional embarrassment, and it seems one might have been found, but even that is questionable, but nothing on the scale of those by Trump. Mountains are being compared to molehills! Of course, it's not being reported. You don't report on political games of this sort. Trump was undoubtedly being hacked. Intelligence services concerned about, even the suspicion of, the involvement of malign foreign influence with a Presidential candidate, let alone a President, have a duty to intercept communications. That an opposing campaign would do the same is pretty obvious. Trump's campaign, aided by the Russians, was at it with Clinton. These aren't conspiracy theories. These are the realities of US politics today. To be officially denied of course. Opposition research is the polite name. That's what's true. It's a dirty game, but one you don't involve your country's enemies in. Your post blows my mind...I could go through and answer paragraph by paragraph but I know there's little point as the problems within your answer are pretty clear. So to avoid a very long post at this late hour I will answer philosophically. You criticise religion and it does of course have its very real problems (though I could never agree with your hardline approach to it). However, I think you demonstrate the problem with nihilism here. You are quite happy to downplay and accept unethical behaviour when benefits your worldview but you will condemn behaviour that doesn't. I can only answer as I did before...it's certainly naive, but it's certainly something core to most religions and I think it teaches an important standard in life. What matters is what is true....not which side wins. The moment you accept, 'the means to an end', you are instantly only limited by the extent of that individual's personal ethics, which in many cases won't put much in the way. The problem we have the leaders we have and I include Trump and Biden, is because the path to the top, though it requires brains, isn't based upon any actual allied ethics but instead opportunity/brown nosing and ruthlessness. Edited by Stirlingsays (16 Feb 2022 11.58pm)
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 becky over the moon 17 Feb 22 6.11am |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Oh, the irony! Of course the evidence was found. It just was not allowed to reach the public because of Barr's ruling. It still exists and will, in the fullness of time, be fully presented. Trump and/or his campaign colluded with Putin. The 5 eyes intelligence services know it. Be patient. There is now an attempt by Trump allies to whitewash all of that via their own "enquiry". It won't work. It may turn up an occasional embarrassment, and it seems one might have been found, but even that is questionable, but nothing on the scale of those by Trump. Mountains are being compared to molehills! Of course, it's not being reported. You don't report on political games of this sort. Trump was undoubtedly being hacked. Intelligence services concerned about, even the suspicion of, the involvement of malign foreign influence with a Presidential candidate, let alone a President, have a duty to intercept communications. That an opposing campaign would do the same is pretty obvious. Trump's campaign, aided by the Russians, was at it with Clinton. These aren't conspiracy theories. These are the realities of US politics today. To be officially denied of course. Opposition research is the polite name. That's what's true. It's a dirty game, but one you don't involve your country's enemies in. If it's not being reported, then how can you say with so much conviction what is going on?
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Nicholas91  The Democratic Republic of Kent 17 Feb 22 9.51am |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Oh, the irony! Of course the evidence was found. It just was not allowed to reach the public because of Barr's ruling. It still exists and will, in the fullness of time, be fully presented. Trump and/or his campaign colluded with Putin. The 5 eyes intelligence services know it. Be patient. There is now an attempt by Trump allies to whitewash all of that via their own "enquiry". It won't work. It may turn up an occasional embarrassment, and it seems one might have been found, but even that is questionable, but nothing on the scale of those by Trump. Mountains are being compared to molehills! Of course, it's not being reported. You don't report on political games of this sort. Trump was undoubtedly being hacked. Intelligence services concerned about, even the suspicion of, the involvement of malign foreign influence with a Presidential candidate, let alone a President, have a duty to intercept communications. That an opposing campaign would do the same is pretty obvious. Trump's campaign, aided by the Russians, was at it with Clinton. These aren't conspiracy theories. These are the realities of US politics today. To be officially denied of course. Opposition research is the polite name. That's what's true. It's a dirty game, but one you don't involve your country's enemies in. I wish not to be embroiled in this latest of debates, I unfortunately have work to do today, though that will never keep me off HOL. My wife being away has left me on the precipice of screaming at a blood stained volleyball in my isolation. Did just want to point out though 'tis hilarious irony to see you using the same rhetoric peddled by the likes of Qanon however Wisbech.
Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!! |
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 17 Feb 22 11.26am |
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Originally posted by becky
If it's not being reported, then how can you say with so much conviction what is going on? The suggestion was made it wasn't being reported in the "Democratic" media, whatever that is. Quite rightly serious news editors won't allow such things onto their pages. It is though being "trumpeted" by the likes of Tucker Carlson who is trying to build a mountain out of a few scraps. He, and his like, are just propagandists for Trump. When I read any kind of defence for Trump, especially from people in our own country, I wonder just how bad it has to get before they realise how bad it has become. Trump being POTUS was akin to electing a mob boss to the position. It's nuts.
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 17 Feb 22 11.30am |
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Originally posted by Nicholas91
I wish not to be embroiled in this latest of debates, I unfortunately have work to do today, though that will never keep me off HOL. My wife being away has left me on the precipice of screaming at a blood stained volleyball in my isolation. Did just want to point out though 'tis hilarious irony to see you using the same rhetoric peddled by the likes of Qanon however Wisbech. Qanon made things up. Mueller investigated. So did Steele. What they found was the truth. The security services know. They leak. These aren't conspiracy theories. Part of Mueller's work was already in his report. Some was redacted. The rest is with the NY attorneys. Be patient.
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 17 Feb 22 11.59am |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Your post blows my mind...I could go through and answer paragraph by paragraph but I know there's little point as the problems within your answer are pretty clear. So to avoid a very long post at this late hour I will answer philosophically. You criticise religion and it does of course have its very real problems (though I could never agree with your hardline approach to it). However, I think you demonstrate the problem with nihilism here. You are quite happy to downplay and accept unethical behaviour when benefits your worldview but you will condemn behaviour that doesn't. I can only answer as I did before...it's certainly naive, but it's certainly something core to most religions and I think it teaches an important standard in life. What matters is what is true....not which side wins. The moment you accept, 'the means to an end', you are instantly only limited by the extent of that individual's personal ethics, which in many cases won't put much in the way. The problem we have the leaders we have and I include Trump and Biden, is because the path to the top, though it requires brains, isn't based upon any actual allied ethics but instead opportunity/brown nosing and ruthlessness. Edited by Stirlingsays (16 Feb 2022 11.58pm) Apologists for Trump will try to defend the indefensible. That so many in the USA do so is very sad, but given the divisive nature of their politics and the way that a certain type of American views the world, unsurprising. It is though very disappointing and surprising to see anyone in the UK who is taken in by this. I view Trump as a real and present danger to western democracy. A view I believe is shared by the security forces not only of the USA but it's allies. I wish that it wasn't so, and that all political life could be conducted with respect. That though isn't the reality. When you fight a war then normal standards get suspended and in many ways you can regard the attacks on democracy as a similar situation to a war. Some of those issues are identified above, but unless and until the uniqueness of Trump's position is recognised and accepted as needing a unique response, we will always disagree.
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| Stirlingsays 17 Feb 22 1.14pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Apologists for Trump will try to defend the indefensible. That so many in the USA do so is very sad, but given the divisive nature of their politics and the way that a certain type of American views the world, unsurprising. It is though very disappointing and surprising to see anyone in the UK who is taken in by this. I view Trump as a real and present danger to western democracy. A view I believe is shared by the security forces not only of the USA but it's allies. I wish that it wasn't so, and that all political life could be conducted with respect. That though isn't the reality. When you fight a war then normal standards get suspended and in many ways you can regard the attacks on democracy as a similar situation to a war. Some of those issues are identified above, but unless and until the uniqueness of Trump's position is recognised and accepted as needing a unique response, we will always disagree. 'Apologists for Trump?'....there were plenty of things Trump did that I didn't agree with, however that still makes him orders of magnitude better than the modern day Democrats....Though whether it's a Democrat in the White House or a Republican in some ways much stays the same because they are bought and sold puppets for others. Anyway, as I've said I prefer Desantis. Anyway, this view that Trump was or is a threat to democracy had/has no substance and Trump's tenure proved it to be a nonsense. Trump improved the US economy and world relations with the enemies of the west. The fact that you continue with myths damages and divides.....but hey, that was set in motion even before Trump was a candidate.....because what you can't seem to understand is that Trump was a reaction as America has been two proto nations for over a decade now....Trump didn't win the presidency because suddenly people liked bad tans. Biden's administration has significantly worsened pretty much everything, especially the economy....the US now look weak and the consequences of that scare me in regards to China/Taiwan and Russia. Totally avoidable. Edited by Stirlingsays (17 Feb 2022 1.31pm)
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 17 Feb 22 7.30pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
'Apologists for Trump?'....there were plenty of things Trump did that I didn't agree with, however that still makes him orders of magnitude better than the modern day Democrats....Though whether it's a Democrat in the White House or a Republican in some ways much stays the same because they are bought and sold puppets for others. Anyway, as I've said I prefer Desantis. Anyway, this view that Trump was or is a threat to democracy had/has no substance and Trump's tenure proved it to be a nonsense. Trump improved the US economy and world relations with the enemies of the west. The fact that you continue with myths damages and divides.....but hey, that was set in motion even before Trump was a candidate.....because what you can't seem to understand is that Trump was a reaction as America has been two proto nations for over a decade now....Trump didn't win the presidency because suddenly people liked bad tans. Biden's administration has significantly worsened pretty much everything, especially the economy....the US now look weak and the consequences of that scare me in regards to China/Taiwan and Russia. Totally avoidable.
This is a liturgy of bs from start to finish. The level of hatred that is displayed about anything that has a Democrat label and the willingness to disregard the total failure of Trump, beggars belief. If it wasn't so pathetic it would be comedy gold. Trump didn't improve the economy. His response to the pandemic was a disaster. He was used by Putin and Kim Jong-un who played him, using his narcissism against the interests of the USA. Trump won the Presidency because of a relentless campaign of lies against a poor opponent, supported by the activities of the biggest enemy of the USA. Why would Russia want Trump in the WH? They knew he would divide it further. Putin hates Clinton and knew he could manipulate Trump. How much actually collusion there was, and who was involved, remains open for debate, but the basic facts are not really arguable. I don't think Trump was a threat to democracy. I think he is. His refusal to accept the result of the 2020 election is a disgrace. Encouraging his supporters to challenge and reject in the way he does ought not be supported by anyone. It ought to be enough to disbar him from office again. Anyone that cannot accept defeat needs to be taught a lesson. The world's economies are in a mess. That happens after a pandemic. The Biden administration have got control of the response and organised a stimulus package which needed to be fought for. What made the USA look weak was Trump's "USA first" stance and the lack of commitment for NATO. Re-establishing things after that is going to take some doing, especially as his shadow is still there, and capable of returning. Who still trusts the USA? It's right to be concerned about China/Taiwan and Russia but the blame isn't at the door of the Democrats. It's all Trump's.
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| Stirlingsays 17 Feb 22 9.24pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
This is a liturgy of bs from start to finish. The level of hatred that is displayed about anything that has a Democrat label and the willingness to disregard the total failure of Trump, beggars belief. If it wasn't so pathetic it would be comedy gold. Trump didn't improve the economy. His response to the pandemic was a disaster. He was used by Putin and Kim Jong-un who played him, using his narcissism against the interests of the USA. Trump won the Presidency because of a relentless campaign of lies against a poor opponent, supported by the activities of the biggest enemy of the USA. Why would Russia want Trump in the WH? They knew he would divide it further. Putin hates Clinton and knew he could manipulate Trump. How much actually collusion there was, and who was involved, remains open for debate, but the basic facts are not really arguable. I don't think Trump was a threat to democracy. I think he is. His refusal to accept the result of the 2020 election is a disgrace. Encouraging his supporters to challenge and reject in the way he does ought not be supported by anyone. It ought to be enough to disbar him from office again. Anyone that cannot accept defeat needs to be taught a lesson. The world's economies are in a mess. That happens after a pandemic. The Biden administration have got control of the response and organised a stimulus package which needed to be fought for. What made the USA look weak was Trump's "USA first" stance and the lack of commitment for NATO. Re-establishing things after that is going to take some doing, especially as his shadow is still there, and capable of returning. Who still trusts the USA? It's right to be concerned about China/Taiwan and Russia but the blame isn't at the door of the Democrats. It's all Trump's. Utter fantasist. Ah well, if Trump wins in 2024 it least it'll be a laugh observing you on here.....if we haven't all be blown to bits due to your moron in office. Edited by Stirlingsays (17 Feb 2022 9.25pm)
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