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Ukraine Situation - Should We Be Worried?

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Forest Hillbilly Flag in a hidey-hole 26 Apr 22 3.27pm Send a Private Message to Forest Hillbilly Add Forest Hillbilly as a friend

1984.
keep the public so distracted by 'the war' (against Putin, against Covid, etc), they don't notice the restrictions and surveillance being placed upon them.

 


I disengage, I turn the page.

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W12 26 Apr 22 3.29pm

Originally posted by Forest Hillbilly

1984.
keep the public so distracted by 'the war' (against Putin, against Covid, etc), they don't notice the restrictions and surveillance being placed upon them.

Indeed, we've been in this mode at least since the "war on terror" and the legislation being put through our parliament is shocking.

Edited by W12 (26 Apr 2022 3.29pm)

 

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BlueJay Flag UK 26 Apr 22 3.47pm

Originally posted by W12


The likes of Johnson, Biden, Macron, Merkel, Adhern, Morrison, Trudeau, Varadker etc lock down their entire population and economies for a virus with 99.7% recovery rate and coerce everyone to get their s***ty vaccines using this as a an excuse to introduce a digital ID (whilst setting their paramilitary police on those that resisted)

This is a pattern repeated across the western world and you still think Putin is who we should be worried about?

The first lockdown made sense, the others much less so, but as per usual you vault to the other extreme and imagine anyone getting vaccinated to be at some supreme risk (no doubt including the elderly), and don't seem to have time for the idea that the vaccine saved a single life.

In any case, I'll think you can find you're perfectly free to live exactly how you wish now as unfounded ideas of permanent restrictions pass. I don't 100% agree with the governments approach by any means and am the first to speak out genuine attacks of freedoms that may be used against people regardless of their politics. Protesting etc.

As I say, you're free to insult the West (which you clearly hate by the way), and yet if you lived in Russia and had equivalent 'opinions' about their invasion of their neighbor you'd be in the back of a police van. That is if you were able to access to information concerning the war online in the first place without breaking Russian law.

You've convinced yourself that war crimes have only been carried out by the invaded, the 'ukranian scum', and that we should be ashamed of helping them. An excuser of widescale destruction and murder of civilians. Yet another logged on lock-in who can't properly function in your own society and uses that as your online starting point for opinion and debate. The Ukranians don't have to be saints for the invasion of their country to be condemned for what it is.


Edited by BlueJay (26 Apr 2022 3.51pm)

 

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BlueJay Flag UK 26 Apr 22 3.52pm

"Germany’s government has authorised the supply of about 50 anti-aircraft tanks to Ukraine, in a major policy shift"

 

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Mapletree Flag Croydon 26 Apr 22 4.00pm Send a Private Message to Mapletree Add Mapletree as a friend

Originally posted by W12

All we can do now is stop shipping arms to Ukraine and try to re-establish diplomatic relations with Russia (in the hope that we can steer Russia away from the increasing influence of China) but that won't happen as western populations have now been propagandised in to thinking of Putin as a lunatic and most Russians as monsters.

Crikey

You didn’t even recognise that as irony

 

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W12 26 Apr 22 4.01pm

Originally posted by BlueJay

The first lockdown made sense, the others much less so, but as per usual you vault to the other extreme and imagine anyone getting vaccinated to be at some supreme risk (no doubt including the elderly), and don't seem to have time for the idea that the vaccine saved a single life.

In any case, I'll think you can find you're perfectly free to live exactly how you wish now as unfounded ideas of permanent restrictions pass. I don't 100% agree with the governments approach by any means and am the first to speak out genuine attacks of freedoms that may be used against people regardless of their politics. Protesting etc.

As I say, you're free to insult the West (which you clearly hate by the way), and yet if you lived in Russia and had equivalent 'opinions' about their invasion of their neighbor you'd be in the back of a police van. That is if you were able to access to information concerning the war online in the first place without breaking Russian law.

You've convinced yourself that war crimes have only been carried out by the invaded, the 'ukranian scum', and that we should be ashamed of helping them. An excuser of widescale destruction and murder of civilians. Yet another logged on lock-in who can't properly function in your own society and uses that as your online starting point for opinion and debate. The Ukranians don't have to be saints for the invasion of their country to be condemned for what it is.

Edited by BlueJay (26 Apr 2022 3.51pm)

What do you mean by "The West" - if you mean it's leaders then yes I actually hate them because they are clearly corrupt and leading us down a dark path. I certainly don't hate the people that have had to put up with them for decades. How long do you think we will be without further restrictions, even now there are a limited number of places I can travel to because I am unvaccinated.

"You've convinced yourself that war crimes have only been carried out by the invaded" - not true, I only have evidence that they seem to be have been carried out by Ukraine forces but I believe in the rule of law and people should be tried.

"Yet another logged on lock-in who can't properly function in your own society" - yeah bollocks, you know squat about me but when people have weak arguments they always seem to throw personal stuff around.


Edited by W12 (26 Apr 2022 4.32pm)

 

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Stirlingsays Flag 26 Apr 22 4.14pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by W12

All we can do now is stop shipping arms to Ukraine and try to re-establish diplomatic relations with Russia (in the hope that we can steer Russia away from the increasing influence of China) but that won't happen as western populations have now been propagandised in to thinking of Putin as a lunatic and most Russians as monsters.

This is practical common sense but as you correctly state the majority have been propagandised into a simplistic narrative...which basically gives the elites an uncriticised position.

However, I think that as soon as the war ends there will be a groundswell of pragmatists who will seek to limit the economic damage though ending sanctions as soon as possible and re-engagement with Russia. The moralisers never wanted to die on a hill over the Yemeni war so their voices and most of their tunes will change with the wind as the propaganda changes.....it was ever thus.


Edited by Stirlingsays (26 Apr 2022 4.15pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Stirlingsays Flag 26 Apr 22 4.22pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by W12

The likes of Johnson, Biden, Macron, Merkel, Adhern, Morrison, Trudeau, Varadker etc lock down their entire population and economies for a virus with 99.7% recovery rate and coerce everyone to get their s***ty vaccines using this as a an excuse to introduce a digital ID (whilst setting their paramilitary police on those that resisted)

This is a pattern repeated across the western world and you still think Putin is who we should be worried about?

It's just a matter of time until they try the ID cards again.....Then pushing to get rid of physical cash so that they can control your finances completely as well.

The western social control systems are all a matter of time.


 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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W12 26 Apr 22 4.31pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

It's just a matter of time until they try the ID cards again.....Then pushing to get rid of physical cash so that they can control your finances completely as well.

The western social control systems are all a matter of time.


I'm fairly close to this pit of vipers by the way by way of what I do for a living so can see elements of this happening up close.


Edited by W12 (26 Apr 2022 4.31pm)

 

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ASCPFC Flag Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 26 Apr 22 4.45pm Send a Private Message to ASCPFC Add ASCPFC as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Sure, but also a hell of a lot of Irish Catholics have settled all over the world.

There has been Russians in what is now called Ukraine for centuries, they were there when it was just a part of the Ottoman empire, and then part of Russia and so on. Ukraine is a relatively new country but its ethnic make up has remained relatively static for far longer.

True, I wasn't giving any particular value judgement on it, nor a particular timeframe.

Edited by Stirlingsays (26 Apr 2022 9.11am)

 


Red and Blue Army!

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cryrst Flag The garden of England 26 Apr 22 4.46pm Send a Private Message to cryrst Add cryrst as a friend

Originally posted by W12

I'm fairly close to this pit of vipers by the way by way of what I do for a living so can see elements of this happening up close.


Edited by W12 (26 Apr 2022 4.31pm)

So you are part of the problem that you so dislike.!

 

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Stirlingsays Flag 26 Apr 22 4.47pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Mapletree

Please provide a link to such independent journalism

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. We are all excellent politicians with it.

Clearly, the right thing to do here would have been to hand the Russian government the keys to Ukraine and - by extension - Moldova. Nobody would have minded and it would all have worked out jolly well, as it has in Donbas in recent years.

I recommend this book

Decentralization, Regional Diversity, and Conflict: The Case of Ukraine

As that was not done, what would be your approach from here on?

Edited by Mapletree (26 Apr 2022 12.03pm)

To be fair there are plenty of high level strategists who were arguing for different approaches to the Ukraine for many years. Their pre war lectures are not hard to find.

At what point does the accusation of hindsight become an excuse for poor policy choices?

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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