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Ukraine Situation - Should We Be Worried?
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 Stirlingsays  26 Apr 22 9.09am |
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Originally posted by ASCPFC
The protestants were the settlers just like the Russians are. The Catholics simply remained in their own country just as the Ukrainians are. Sure, but also a hell of a lot of Irish Catholics have settled all over the world. There has been Russians in what is now called Ukraine for centuries, they were there when it was just a part of the Ottoman empire, and then part of Russia and so on. Ukraine is a relatively new country but its ethnic make up has remained relatively static for far longer. Edited by Stirlingsays (26 Apr 2022 9.11am)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Stirlingsays 26 Apr 22 9.15am |
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Originally posted by Mapletree
It is impossible to know the true views of ethnic Russians in the Donbas Sure, but being Russian the likely outcome of those views isn't hard to guess. Originally posted by Mapletree
Most have been in Ukraine for multiple generations and some certainly are fighting against Russia Sure, but this can be said about any set within a group....some Polish Ukrainians will be fighting against the Ukraine....but it won't be many. Originally posted by Mapletree
Russia has moved considerable support over the border over the past 8 years and there is no doubt fomented the unrest. It has cost Russia a huge amount to support Donbas separatists All of which should and could have been avoided if the will had been there. Bad calculation from our side, in my opinion as the Ukraine is existential for Russia. Edited by Stirlingsays (26 Apr 2022 9.28am)
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| W12 26 Apr 22 9.19am | |
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Originally posted by ASCPFC
The protestants were the settlers just like the Russians are. The Catholics simply remained in their own country just as the Ukrainians are. Nope that is a vast over simplification, the history of the Donbass is far more complex.
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| W12 26 Apr 22 9.24am | |
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Originally posted by Mapletree
It is impossible to know the true views of ethnic Russians in the Donbas There are independent journalists on the ground interviewing civilians and the story they are telling does not match what you are seeing on corporate media. All I see on the likes of the BBC, SKY and every newspaper is manufactured consent to extend this war and even escalate it. People of both sides will suffer and many more will be killed and this was all avoidable.
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| crystal-purley Purley 26 Apr 22 11.21am |
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Originally posted by W12
Why didn’t catholics in Northern Ireland move to the Republic? The Tims were there first
Enjoying getting up later and not having someone who knows better than me (apart from the missus of course). |
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 georgenorman 26 Apr 22 11.25am |
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Originally posted by W12
Why didn’t catholics in Northern Ireland move to the Republic? Perhaps they were worried about their children being molested by priests?
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| Mapletree Croydon 26 Apr 22 12.01pm |
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Originally posted by W12
There are independent journalists on the ground interviewing civilians and the story they are telling does not match what you are seeing on corporate media. All I see on the likes of the BBC, SKY and every newspaper is manufactured consent to extend this war and even escalate it. People of both sides will suffer and many more will be killed and this was all avoidable. Please provide a link to such independent journalism Hindsight is a wonderful thing. We are all excellent politicians with it. Clearly, the right thing to do here would have been to hand the Russian government the keys to Ukraine and - by extension - Moldova. Nobody would have minded and it would all have worked out jolly well, as it has in Donbas in recent years. I recommend this book Decentralization, Regional Diversity, and Conflict: The Case of Ukraine As that was not done, what would be your approach from here on? Edited by Mapletree (26 Apr 2022 12.03pm)
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| W12 26 Apr 22 12.29pm | |
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Originally posted by Mapletree
Please provide a link to such independent journalism Hindsight is a wonderful thing. We are all excellent politicians with it. Clearly, the right thing to do here would have been to hand the Russian government the keys to Ukraine and - by extension - Moldova. Nobody would have minded and it would all have worked out jolly well, as it has in Donbas in recent years. I recommend this book Decentralization, Regional Diversity, and Conflict: The Case of Ukraine As that was not done, what would be your approach from here on? Edited by Mapletree (26 Apr 2022 12.03pm) All we can do now is stop shipping arms to Ukraine and try to re-establish diplomatic relations with Russia (in the hope that we can steer Russia away from the increasing influence of China) but that won't happen as western populations have now been propagandised in to thinking of Putin as a lunatic and most Russians as monsters.
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BlueJay  UK 26 Apr 22 2.48pm |
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Originally posted by W12
All we can do now is stop shipping arms to Ukraine and try to re-establish diplomatic relations with Russia (in the hope that we can steer Russia away from the increasing influence of China) but that won't happen as western populations have now been propagandised in to thinking of Putin as a lunatic and most Russians as monsters. Putin shows little concern for his own citizens, military or other peoples. We should keep arming Ukraine so that no matter if Russia ends up viewing this as a success, they are so militarily and economically so damaged that the idea of repeating this behaviour again is the last thing on their minds. Also the idea that if Ukraine isn't armed Russia would stop their advance at a set point, defies logic. Putin and co see the entirety of Ukraine as Russian. This isn't an invasion that stops at a set point unless other nations ensure that it does.
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ASCPFC  Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 26 Apr 22 2.59pm |
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Originally posted by W12
Nope that is a vast over simplification, the history of the Donbass is far more complex. What do you want, a whole f***ing paper on each? It is basically right - despite pseudo histories being pushed currently.
Red and Blue Army! |
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| steeleye20 Croydon 26 Apr 22 3.08pm |
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I would think that militarily the west would wish to weaken Putin as is happening, bring him on until he is punched out and then strike pushing him back into Russia. Montgomery would be rubbing his hands. It's rather a fantasy of mine I'm afraid.
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| W12 26 Apr 22 3.16pm | |
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Originally posted by BlueJay
Putin shows little concern for his own citizens, military or other peoples. We should keep arming Ukraine so that no matter if Russia ends up viewing this as a success, they are so militarily and economically so damaged that the idea of repeating this behaviour again is the last thing on their minds. Also the idea that if Ukraine isn't armed Russia would stop their advance at a set point, defies logic. Putin and co see the entirety of Ukraine as Russian. This isn't an invasion that stops at a set point unless other nations ensure that it does.
This is a pattern repeated across the western world and you still think Putin is who we should be worried about?
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