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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 21 Jun 16 12.10pm

Originally posted by Jimenez

Here is someone who reviles Cameron at every turn & yet believes him on this subject!!! Incredible f*** me you couldn't make this crap up!


I do revile Cameron, but that does not mean he didn't get ANY concessions.

This is from the economist.
[Link]
The easiest was the first, competitiveness, because all EU leaders pay lip service to cutting red tape, signing more trade deals and completing the single market—even though they may object to specific individual measures. The sovereignty basket was harder: although all countries signed up to a “red card” mechanism that will allow a majority of national parliaments to block EU laws, the Belgians and some others were surprisingly hostile to letting Britain escape its commitment to ever-closer union. In the end, though, this was conceded on the basis of Mr Cameron’s “live and let live” approach, whereby Britain promises not to stop other EU countries moving towards closer union so long as it can opt out.

The most important change Mr Cameron sought was a guarantee that non-euro countries would not be discriminated against by the much bigger euro-zone block. France tried to stop a deal whereby Britain alone could ask for any euro-zone decision it disliked to be referred up to an EU summit. In the end Mr Cameron got his way. But he reassured his partners that Britain would no longer try to slow or stop deeper integration if that was what the euro zone needed.

The biggest argument came over the fourth basket: Britain’s desire to stop new migrants from the EU claiming in-work benefits, and also to stop paying child benefit, even for existing EU migrants, for children left in home countries. In a compromise, Mr Cameron won approval for an “emergency brake” allowing Britain to stop the first for seven years, and to cut child benefits for existing migrants from 2020 onwards. The European Commission expressed confidence that this would withstand a legal challenge on grounds of discrimination against other EU nationals; some lawyers are less sure. What seems less certain still is that fiddling with benefit rules will make much difference to the numbers of EU migrants coming to Britain, because almost all of them come to work, not to claim benefits.

Doesn't look like nothing to me. True he didn't get all that he wanted. But liking or hating him does not dispute the above.

 

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johnfirewall Flag 21 Jun 16 12.10pm Send a Private Message to johnfirewall Add johnfirewall as a friend

Originally posted by dannyh

Watched the telly box the other night programme called British benefits on channel five, anyone see the Romanian punk claiming benefit and then sending it home to build a nice house for himself ?

Now I'm no financial whizz, but I'll bet you a months salary, that's not what should be happening.

And if we stay this is only going to get worse.

[Link]

Yeah but we can afford him if Starbucks pay more tax. Funny, they are pro-EU as well.

 

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Jimenez Flag SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 21 Jun 16 12.14pm Send a Private Message to Jimenez Add Jimenez as a friend

Originally posted by johnfirewall

Literally just called my Facebook out in this.

That list of all the bankers, CEOs and Tories supporting Remain doing the rounds.

The left are untouchable in their hypocrisy.

Exactly my point. They are only interested in stifling competition amongst small to medium size businesses, that's why they want to remain. It takes on average six to eight weeks to get all your paperwork up together to start a business in Europe but a matter of a week or two in the USA. Incidentally it takes you 3/4 hours to file the relevant paperwork in New Zealand
*LEAVE*

 


Pro USA & Israel

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Jimenez Flag SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 21 Jun 16 12.16pm Send a Private Message to Jimenez Add Jimenez as a friend

Originally posted by nickgusset


I do revile Cameron, but that does not mean he didn't get ANY concessions.

This is from the economist.
[Link]
The easiest was the first, competitiveness, because all EU leaders pay lip service to cutting red tape, signing more trade deals and completing the single market—even though they may object to specific individual measures. The sovereignty basket was harder: although all countries signed up to a “red card” mechanism that will allow a majority of national parliaments to block EU laws, the Belgians and some others were surprisingly hostile to letting Britain escape its commitment to ever-closer union. In the end, though, this was conceded on the basis of Mr Cameron’s “live and let live” approach, whereby Britain promises not to stop other EU countries moving towards closer union so long as it can opt out.

The most important change Mr Cameron sought was a guarantee that non-euro countries would not be discriminated against by the much bigger euro-zone block. France tried to stop a deal whereby Britain alone could ask for any euro-zone decision it disliked to be referred up to an EU summit. In the end Mr Cameron got his way. But he reassured his partners that Britain would no longer try to slow or stop deeper integration if that was what the euro zone needed.

The biggest argument came over the fourth basket: Britain’s desire to stop new migrants from the EU claiming in-work benefits, and also to stop paying child benefit, even for existing EU migrants, for children left in home countries. In a compromise, Mr Cameron won approval for an “emergency brake” allowing Britain to stop the first for seven years, and to cut child benefits for existing migrants from 2020 onwards. The European Commission expressed confidence that this would withstand a legal challenge on grounds of discrimination against other EU nationals; some lawyers are less sure. What seems less certain still is that fiddling with benefit rules will make much difference to the numbers of EU migrants coming to Britain, because almost all of them come to work, not to claim benefits.

Doesn't look like nothing to me. True he didn't get all that he wanted. But liking or hating him does not dispute the above.

Frankly If Cameron said the sun was going to rise on Friday morning I wouldn't believe him. He been shown to be an out an out liar & is a busted flush.

 


Pro USA & Israel

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Hoof Hearted 21 Jun 16 12.17pm

Originally posted by Kermit8

A question to all: When was the last time an immigrant and/or refugee actually ruined your day personally?

Was in London for 40 years and am trying to think of an instance when one p1ssed me off royally but I can't.

So you've never been on an overcrowded tube train not being able to get a seat, sat for hours on the M25 going nowhere, couldn't get a Drs appointment, waited for hours in A&E, not been able to get your kid in your local school etc etc?

All of these events boil down to immigrants over crowding our island/infrastructure and p1ss me off royally.... I guess you don't get out much these days. 40 years ago in London none of this was happening BTW.

 

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Rubin Flag 21 Jun 16 12.25pm Send a Private Message to Rubin Add Rubin as a friend

Originally posted by Rubin

Out of interest Nick, Kermit et al, have you watched Lexit the movie? It's the left's case for voting leave.

[Link]

Have you watched this Nick?

 

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OknotOK Flag Cockfosters, London 21 Jun 16 12.31pm Send a Private Message to OknotOK Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add OknotOK as a friend

Originally posted by Hoof Hearted

So you've never been on an overcrowded tube train not being able to get a seat, sat for hours on the M25 going nowhere, couldn't get a Drs appointment, waited for hours in A&E, not been able to get your kid in your local school etc etc?

All of these events boil down to immigrants over crowding our island/infrastructure and p1ss me off royally.... I guess you don't get out much these days. 40 years ago in London none of this was happening BTW.

Depends on your perspective? Those things could equally be assigned to successive governments failing to address infrastructure problems.

I haven't heard many saying Gove was a xeonphobic, but Farage plays up to it. And his poster - which was subsequently removed - was further evidence that he at least plays up to it if he isn't actually xenophobic (although personally I think much of it is an act).

Points-based systems can work but it is very illiberal and relies on the government knowing best what is good for our economy. Most of you are saying you don't trust them so why do you trust them to know what is in the best interests of the labour market?

 


"It's almost like a moral decision. Except not really cos noone is going to find out," Jez, Peep Show

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leifandersonshair Flag Newport 21 Jun 16 12.31pm Send a Private Message to leifandersonshair Add leifandersonshair as a friend

Originally posted by Hoof Hearted

So you've never been on an overcrowded tube train not being able to get a seat, sat for hours on the M25 going nowhere, couldn't get a Drs appointment, waited for hours in A&E, not been able to get your kid in your local school etc etc?

All of these events boil down to immigrants over crowding our island/infrastructure and p1ss me off royally.... I guess you don't get out much these days. 40 years ago in London none of this was happening BTW.

No, these all boil down to numerous factors, not least chronic underfunding and austerity. Immigration is a contributing factor- I don't deny that. To say it's all the fault of immigration is a lazy and short sighted argument.

Had to wait hours at A&E? Probably because all the beds are being blocked by OAP's who can't be discharged because the social care budget has been destroyed. Had to wait hours for a GP? Ageing population, a situation only going to get worse, with not enough GP's to go round.

Immigrants are a convenient target.

Oh, and 40 years ago many things were different. But hey, change is always dangerous right? Let's just stagnate as a society. Back to the golden age of, er, 1976- where the UK was crippled by strikes, and we had to ask for an IMF bailout.

 

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Jimenez Flag SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 21 Jun 16 12.33pm Send a Private Message to Jimenez Add Jimenez as a friend

Originally posted by leifandersonshair

No, these all boil down to numerous factors, not least chronic underfunding and austerity. Immigration is a contributing factor- I don't deny that. To say it's all the fault of immigration is a lazy and short sighted argument.

Had to wait hours at A&E? Probably because all the beds are being blocked by OAP's who can't be discharged because the social care budget has been destroyed. Had to wait hours for a GP? Ageing population, a situation only going to get worse, with not enough GP's to go round.

Immigrants are a convenient target.

Oh, and 40 years ago many things were different. But hey, change is always dangerous right? Let's just stagnate as a society. Back to the golden age of, er, 1976- where the UK was crippled by strikes, and we had to ask for an IMF bailout.

Yep under a socialist government a bit like the EU BIG government & to many people on that gravy train.

 


Pro USA & Israel

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Spiderman Flag Horsham 21 Jun 16 12.35pm Send a Private Message to Spiderman Add Spiderman as a friend

Originally posted by nickgusset

They fit the criteria? Don't forget, Dave got concessions from the EU in this area (despite many people saying he came back with nothing.

At this stage he has got diddlysquat. Some of his proposals are allegedly being supported but none have been passed. Watch that support disappear if we vote to remain.

 

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EverybodyDannsNow Flag SE19 21 Jun 16 12.35pm Send a Private Message to EverybodyDannsNow Add EverybodyDannsNow as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

I find it frustrating that Farage and Gove are criticised as being xenophobic when all they have proposed is a points system for potential immigrants to weed out the kind of people who wish to come here for a free lunch.

What we need in this country is skills that we don't have not scroungers and people who just flood the labour market and suppress wages.

But that's not all they've proposed, and that's not why they're labelled xenophobic.

This campaign started with leave contesting 'you can't label all of us as racists just because we have concerns about immigration' - which is an entirely fair and true point - but it's not an all-encompassing defence which renders everyone immune from being accessed of xenophobia.

Of course it's moronic to label all Brexiters as racist, but it's equally moronic to deny the existence of that element in sections of the campaign - Farage has, in my opinion, too often crossed the line between having 'concerns about immigration' and being outright offensive.

 

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DivingIsNotGood Flag se25 21 Jun 16 12.41pm

Originally posted by Rubin

Have you watched this Nick?

Nick will have an excuse for every argument on Lexit, only when it's too late will he realise voting to stay was wrong.

 


VOTING OUT - Brexit will allow Britain to embrace the Commonwealth and be GREAT again

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