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 matt_himself  Matataland 22 Feb 15 10.57am |
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Quote Tom-the-eagle at 22 Feb 2015 9.59am
Quote Kermit8 at 22 Feb 2015 9.27am
Footage of Rozanne Duncan - UKIP Councillor up until a few weeks ago - saying she has a “problem” with “Negroes” and admitting she would refuse to attend dinner if seated next to a black person.
Kermit knows everything. He has told us this many, many times.
"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02 |
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| legaleagle 22 Feb 15 1.05pm |
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Interesting reactions to Kermit's post/link. It seems there is a UKIP politician (not voter) whose distaste for black people is such she wouldn't sit next to one at a meal.Presumably none of the pro-UKIP posters on here would vote for her if she stood as a candidate in their council elections. If anyone on here wants to defend her sentiments as being no kind of any problem in a politician of any party,then fair enough and I wait with bated breath to hear why and how. But,a reaction of just suggesting Kermit is inferring every UKIP voter must be like her (which would be nonsense) is something he plainly wasn't saying in his post and does seem to be a stock response of some about any concerns expressed about why some people with questionable views might be attracted to UKIP. Similarly,the suggestion that her seemingly abhorrent racism equates to suggesting all labour/tory voters must condone child abuse or tax avoidance is plain silly,as plain silly as suggesting all UKIP voters are racist,which is precisely what Kermit didn't suggest. Of course its valid to query a politician who advocates fighting tax avoidance if they themselves engage in it and there have been plenty of psts on here dong just that.Politicians are hypocrites,what's new? But,that hardly equates to a politician refusing to eat with a black person,or does in some people's eyes?Her behaviour /views isn't hypocrisy but something far more insidious. We avoid tax, almost all of us, in some way when we can.Has anyone on here never stayed 5 minutes over at a parking meter and not paid extra,thus avoiding a parking tax imposed by a local authority? Smokers/drinkers never brought in more duty free cigs or booze than the duty-free limit? Would that be the same as any of us being racists? Would that mean none of us could oppose multi-nationals avoiding tax through clever schemes thought up by expensive accountants? Plainly, loads of people intending to vote for UKIP are not motivated by racism or an antipathy to other cultures or even by an antipathy to immigration,but it seems some may be motivated in part by the first. The question of why UKIP appeals to such people is interesting and valid. Edited by legaleagle (22 Feb 2015 1.10pm)
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| Tom-the-eagle Croydon 22 Feb 15 1.29pm |
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Quote legaleagle at 22 Feb 2015 1.05pm
Interesting reactions to Kermit's post/link. It seems there is a UKIP politician (not voter) whose distaste for black people is such she wouldn't sit next to one at a meal.Presumably none of the pro-UKIP posters on here would vote for her if she stood as a candidate in their council elections. If anyone on here wants to defend her sentiments as being no kind of any problem in a politician of any party,then fair enough and I wait with bated breath to hear why and how. But,a reaction of just suggesting Kermit is inferring every UKIP voter must be like her (which would be nonsense) is something he plainly wasn't saying in his post and does seem to be a stock response of some about any concerns expressed about why some people with questionable views might be attracted to UKIP. Similarly,the suggestion that her seemingly abhorrent racism equates to suggesting all labour/tory voters must condone child abuse or tax avoidance is plain silly,as plain silly as suggesting all UKIP voters are racist,which is precisely what Kermit didn't suggest. Of course its valid to query a politician who advocates fighting tax avoidance if they themselves engage in it and there have been plenty of psts on here dong just that.Politicians are hypocrites,what's new? But,that hardly equates to a politician refusing to eat with a black person,or does in some people's eyes?Her behaviour /views isn't hypocrisy but something far more insidious. We avoid tax, almost all of us, in some way when we can.Has anyone on here never stayed 5 minutes over at a parking meter and not paid extra,thus avoiding a parking tax imposed by a local authority? Smokers/drinkers never brought in more duty free cigs or booze than the duty-free limit? Would that be the same as any of us being racists? Would that mean none of us could oppose multi-nationals avoiding tax through clever schemes thought up by expensive accountants? Plainly, loads of people intending to vote for UKIP are not motivated by racism or an antipathy to other cultures or even by an antipathy to immigration,but it seems some may be motivated in part by the first. The question of why UKIP appeals to such people is interesting and valid. Edited by legaleagle (22 Feb 2015 1.10pm) UKIP do focus on the EU, its UKIP knockers like yourself who are so desperate to change the focus on to general immigration. Or what about conservative Bob Allen, did he join the Tory’s because he was racist?
"It feels much better than it ever did, much more sensitive." John Wayne Bobbit |
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| matt_himself Matataland 22 Feb 15 2.02pm |
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Quote legaleagle at 22 Feb 2015 1.05pm
Interesting reactions to Kermit's post/link. It seems there is a UKIP politician (not voter) whose distaste for black people is such she wouldn't sit next to one at a meal.Presumably none of the pro-UKIP posters on here would vote for her if she stood as a candidate in their council elections. If anyone on here wants to defend her sentiments as being no kind of any problem in a politician of any party,then fair enough and I wait with bated breath to hear why and how. But,a reaction of just suggesting Kermit is inferring every UKIP voter must be like her (which would be nonsense) is something he plainly wasn't saying in his post and does seem to be a stock response of some about any concerns expressed about why some people with questionable views might be attracted to UKIP. Similarly,the suggestion that her seemingly abhorrent racism equates to suggesting all labour/tory voters must condone child abuse or tax avoidance is plain silly,as plain silly as suggesting all UKIP voters are racist,which is precisely what Kermit didn't suggest. Of course its valid to query a politician who advocates fighting tax avoidance if they themselves engage in it and there have been plenty of psts on here dong just that.Politicians are hypocrites,what's new? But,that hardly equates to a politician refusing to eat with a black person,or does in some people's eyes?Her behaviour /views isn't hypocrisy but something far more insidious. We avoid tax, almost all of us, in some way when we can.Has anyone on here never stayed 5 minutes over at a parking meter and not paid extra,thus avoiding a parking tax imposed by a local authority? Smokers/drinkers never brought in more duty free cigs or booze than the duty-free limit? Would that be the same as any of us being racists? Would that mean none of us could oppose multi-nationals avoiding tax through clever schemes thought up by expensive accountants? Plainly, loads of people intending to vote for UKIP are not motivated by racism or an antipathy to other cultures or even by an antipathy to immigration,but it seems some may be motivated in part by the first. The question of why UKIP appeals to such people is interesting and valid. Edited by legaleagle (22 Feb 2015 1.10pm)
See. Saves a lot of time.
"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02 |
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Kermit8  Hevon 22 Feb 15 2.07pm |
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Other Party leaders don't have this kind of form and why UKIP has to come under a special kind of scrutiny. This from a teacher at establishment friendly Dulwich College. "A LETTER written by a teacher at Nigel Farage’s high school reveals concerns that the Ukip leader was racist or fascist began when he was just a teenager. The letter, uncovered by Channel 4 News and written in June 1981 by a young English teacher named Chloe Deakin, begged Dulwich College’s head teacher not to allow Farage to become a school prefect due to the boy’s fascist tendencies. The letter says that at a meeting to discuss the school’s new prefects one teacher described Farage as "a fascist”. Deakin noted that there was "considerable reaction" to Farage’s proposed prefecture from a number of teachers who thought the boy was "racist" and "fascist" or "neo-fascist". The letter says: "Another colleague, who teaches the boy, described his publicly professed racist and neo-fascist views; and he cited a particular incident in which Farage was so offensive to a boy in his set, that he had to be removed from the lesson. This master stated his view that this behaviour was precisely why the boy should not be made a prefect”. The letter also said that while he was at cadet camp, Farage and a number of other cadets had marched through a quiet Sussex village late at night singing Hitler-youth songs."
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| Stirlingsays 22 Feb 15 2.08pm |
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Raising Diane Abbott is a good case in point. It shows that different rules in society operate depending upon the colour of your skin. She can make generalizations about white people and she stayed in her job......If she had been white I'm doubtful it would have been so. It's apart of the hypocrisy that we see all through society.....Women get away with massively sexist remarks about men all the time and yet if a bloke does it to them it's like they have farted in a lift. I say that purely as an observation because to be fair, I've no problem with sexist jokes said in humour by either gender.....This world needs to stop the thought policing......However, as I say, I quietly note the hypocrisy when things men say in jest are sometimes taken seriously.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Stirlingsays 22 Feb 15 2.15pm |
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Quote Kermit8 at 22 Feb 2015 2.07pm
Other Party leaders don't have this kind of form and why UKIP has to come under a special kind of scrutiny. This from a teacher at establishment friendly Dulwich College. "A LETTER written by a teacher at Nigel Farage’s high school reveals concerns that the Ukip leader was racist or fascist began when he was just a teenager. The letter, uncovered by Channel 4 News and written in June 1981 by a young English teacher named Chloe Deakin, begged Dulwich College’s head teacher not to allow Farage to become a school prefect due to the boy’s fascist tendencies. The letter says that at a meeting to discuss the school’s new prefects one teacher described Farage as "a fascist”. Deakin noted that there was "considerable reaction" to Farage’s proposed prefecture from a number of teachers who thought the boy was "racist" and "fascist" or "neo-fascist". The letter says: "Another colleague, who teaches the boy, described his publicly professed racist and neo-fascist views; and he cited a particular incident in which Farage was so offensive to a boy in his set, that he had to be removed from the lesson. This master stated his view that this behaviour was precisely why the boy should not be made a prefect”. The letter also said that while he was at cadet camp, Farage and a number of other cadets had marched through a quiet Sussex village late at night singing Hitler-youth songs."
What teenagers do....Which don't involve breaking the law.... really shouldn't be used later on some kind of stick to beat them. Farage doesn't appear to be the type who takes himself that seriously and I imagine winding up lefty teachers would have been apart of his remit. The opinions of....these lefty type teachers about Farage hold no water....Aside from it being unprofessional of them....The fact is Farage joined the Tories and that's the extent of what can be reliably said.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Kermit8 Hevon 22 Feb 15 2.17pm |
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Quote matt_himself at 22 Feb 2015 2.02pm
Quote legaleagle at 22 Feb 2015 1.05pm
Interesting reactions to Kermit's post/link. It seems there is a UKIP politician (not voter) whose distaste for black people is such she wouldn't sit next to one at a meal.Presumably none of the pro-UKIP posters on here would vote for her if she stood as a candidate in their council elections. If anyone on here wants to defend her sentiments as being no kind of any problem in a politician of any party,then fair enough and I wait with bated breath to hear why and how. But,a reaction of just suggesting Kermit is inferring every UKIP voter must be like her (which would be nonsense) is something he plainly wasn't saying in his post and does seem to be a stock response of some about any concerns expressed about why some people with questionable views might be attracted to UKIP. Similarly,the suggestion that her seemingly abhorrent racism equates to suggesting all labour/tory voters must condone child abuse or tax avoidance is plain silly,as plain silly as suggesting all UKIP voters are racist,which is precisely what Kermit didn't suggest. Of course its valid to query a politician who advocates fighting tax avoidance if they themselves engage in it and there have been plenty of psts on here dong just that.Politicians are hypocrites,what's new? But,that hardly equates to a politician refusing to eat with a black person,or does in some people's eyes?Her behaviour /views isn't hypocrisy but something far more insidious. We avoid tax, almost all of us, in some way when we can.Has anyone on here never stayed 5 minutes over at a parking meter and not paid extra,thus avoiding a parking tax imposed by a local authority? Smokers/drinkers never brought in more duty free cigs or booze than the duty-free limit? Would that be the same as any of us being racists? Would that mean none of us could oppose multi-nationals avoiding tax through clever schemes thought up by expensive accountants? Plainly, loads of people intending to vote for UKIP are not motivated by racism or an antipathy to other cultures or even by an antipathy to immigration,but it seems some may be motivated in part by the first. The question of why UKIP appeals to such people is interesting and valid. Edited by legaleagle (22 Feb 2015 1.10pm)
See. Saves a lot of time.
No. so you do have issues.
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| legaleagle 22 Feb 15 2.26pm |
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Quote Tom-the-eagle at 22 Feb 2015 1.29pm
Quote legaleagle at 22 Feb 2015 1.05pm
Interesting reactions to Kermit's post/link. It seems there is a UKIP politician (not voter) whose distaste for black people is such she wouldn't sit next to one at a meal.Presumably none of the pro-UKIP posters on here would vote for her if she stood as a candidate in their council elections. If anyone on here wants to defend her sentiments as being no kind of any problem in a politician of any party,then fair enough and I wait with bated breath to hear why and how. But,a reaction of just suggesting Kermit is inferring every UKIP voter must be like her (which would be nonsense) is something he plainly wasn't saying in his post and does seem to be a stock response of some about any concerns expressed about why some people with questionable views might be attracted to UKIP. Similarly,the suggestion that her seemingly abhorrent racism equates to suggesting all labour/tory voters must condone child abuse or tax avoidance is plain silly,as plain silly as suggesting all UKIP voters are racist,which is precisely what Kermit didn't suggest. Of course its valid to query a politician who advocates fighting tax avoidance if they themselves engage in it and there have been plenty of psts on here dong just that.Politicians are hypocrites,what's new? But,that hardly equates to a politician refusing to eat with a black person,or does in some people's eyes?Her behaviour /views isn't hypocrisy but something far more insidious. We avoid tax, almost all of us, in some way when we can.Has anyone on here never stayed 5 minutes over at a parking meter and not paid extra,thus avoiding a parking tax imposed by a local authority? Smokers/drinkers never brought in more duty free cigs or booze than the duty-free limit? Would that be the same as any of us being racists? Would that mean none of us could oppose multi-nationals avoiding tax through clever schemes thought up by expensive accountants? Plainly, loads of people intending to vote for UKIP are not motivated by racism or an antipathy to other cultures or even by an antipathy to immigration,but it seems some may be motivated in part by the first. The question of why UKIP appeals to such people is interesting and valid. Edited by legaleagle (22 Feb 2015 1.10pm) UKIP do focus on the EU, its UKIP knockers like yourself who are so desperate to change the focus on to general immigration. Or what about conservative Bob Allen, did he join the Tory’s because he was racist?
I am not intending personally to vote for UKIP, which will not surprise you. I haven't yet made my mind up where my vote will go.I trust you don't suggest that invalidates me having an opinion about the points I wrote about, any more than if a person is going to vote for UKIP,it would invalidates them having an opinion about,say,the Tories or Labour? The person you refer to as having idiotic views was an elected politician of the party in question.Of course there are many other issues to focus on (personally,I'd like to see some morefocus on senior UKIP politicians/adviser's views about the NHS),but none of that makes it illegitimate to have some concern (which I trust you share) about the number (ie not just one or two) of current UKIP politicians/advisers who seem to hold some pretty inappropriate views.If you have no such concern,that's your entitlement. I personally,without apology, distinguish between people saying "something silly" and overt racism (and indeed overt racism in 2014/15). Of course,representatives of all parties have said inappropriate things in the past.However,I think it legitimate to focus on the coming election rather than past ones, and it would be just as legitimate for you to post about anything you felt was inappropriate said by a politician/adviser of any party recently,particularly if it did equate to something as highly inappropriate as racism.
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| legaleagle 22 Feb 15 2.30pm |
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. Edited by legaleagle (22 Feb 2015 7.25pm)
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| legaleagle 22 Feb 15 2.34pm |
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Quote legaleagle at 22 Feb 2015 2.30pm
Quote matt_himself at 22 Feb 2015 2.02pm
See. Saves a lot of time.
Edited by legaleagle (22 Feb 2015 2.35pm)
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| Kermit8 Hevon 22 Feb 15 2.38pm |
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Quote Stirlingsays at 22 Feb 2015 2.15pm
Quote Kermit8 at 22 Feb 2015 2.07pm
Other Party leaders don't have this kind of form and why UKIP has to come under a special kind of scrutiny. This from a teacher at establishment friendly Dulwich College. "A LETTER written by a teacher at Nigel Farage’s high school reveals concerns that the Ukip leader was racist or fascist began when he was just a teenager. The letter, uncovered by Channel 4 News and written in June 1981 by a young English teacher named Chloe Deakin, begged Dulwich College’s head teacher not to allow Farage to become a school prefect due to the boy’s fascist tendencies. The letter says that at a meeting to discuss the school’s new prefects one teacher described Farage as "a fascist”. Deakin noted that there was "considerable reaction" to Farage’s proposed prefecture from a number of teachers who thought the boy was "racist" and "fascist" or "neo-fascist". The letter says: "Another colleague, who teaches the boy, described his publicly professed racist and neo-fascist views; and he cited a particular incident in which Farage was so offensive to a boy in his set, that he had to be removed from the lesson. This master stated his view that this behaviour was precisely why the boy should not be made a prefect”. The letter also said that while he was at cadet camp, Farage and a number of other cadets had marched through a quiet Sussex village late at night singing Hitler-youth songs."
What teenagers do....Which don't involve breaking the law.... really shouldn't be used later on some kind of stick to beat them. Farage doesn't appear to be the type who takes himself that seriously and I imagine winding up lefty teachers would have been apart of his remit. The opinions of....these lefty type teachers about Farage hold no water....Aside from it being unprofessional of them....The fact is Farage joined the Tories and that's the extent of what can be reliably said.
Some psychologists believe that 18 year olds with fascist/neo nazi tendencies are more than likely to hold on to those same views pretty much throughout their lives. Not saying Nige is definitely one of those but worth keeping an eye on him just in case imo.
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