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Hrolf The Ganger 14 Apr 24 9.20am | |
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Originally posted by Forest Hillbilly
Iran fires missiles and drones at Israel, which is being labelled "a major escalation" by Israeli military. You do realise that the people they killed were Iranian military plotting attacks on Israel by proxy. It does amaze me how you guys on the left have such a one eyed view of all this.
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Hrolf The Ganger 14 Apr 24 9.25am | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
The description of Israel that follows the highlighted idea is precisely the reason why it ought not be even discussed, let alone implemented. It would precipitate a major escalation that would impact everyone on the earth in some way and has the potential for massive loss of life and even the unthinkable. Responsible, peace loving western nations don’t behave like that. So let’s hope Netanyahu has wiser heads around him and putting pressure on him from elsewhere. This is a time for diplomacy. Not for hot heads. The way to deal with Iran is to support internal dissent on top of external pressure until the people replace extremism with pragmatism. Both sides can present this as a victory to their own people. Iran because they responded. Israel became their defence systems worked. Let’s hope they are both content with that. For Netanyahu this can be milked as more than a victory. It has reduced the focus on their own behaviour in Gaza and cast them again as the victim. It has also enabled them to test, in a real situation, their air defence systems and prove they are effective, both to their own people and to their adversaries. Iran did not overwhelm it and ought now be dissuaded from trying again. Maybe some good can now be extracted from what looked awful last night. With effective international diplomacy maybe some serious negotiations can start that will result in, if not a rapprochement, at least a stable stand off. That's all very nice, but are you seriously saying that if Britain were attacked by hundreds of drones and missiles you would be happy for us to respond by saying that our defences worked, and we should just ignore it? No doubt you would have sent Hitler a very strongly worded letter after he invaded Poland, been very annoyed when he entered France and threatened to stop eating German sausages when he started bombing London.
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georgenorman 14 Apr 24 9.25am | |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
You do realise that the people they killed were Iranian military plotting attacks on Israel by proxy. It does amaze me how you guys on the left have such a one eyed view of all this.
Never underestimate the stupidity of the left.
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silvertop Portishead 14 Apr 24 9.31am | |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
You do realise that the people they killed were Iranian military plotting attacks on Israel by proxy. It does amaze me how you guys on the left have such a one eyed view of all this.
Left? Right? What on earth has that to do with anything? Those blokes Israel killed were undoubtedly c***s and few would lose a second of sleep at their demise. But... Diplomatic areas are sacred. You do NOT touch. EVER. It was an act of such crass stupidity by Israel and it has inflamed the region and put its own people at risk. Worse it has put our servicemen at risk who Israel assumes will now defend them.
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eagleman13 On The Road To Hell & Alicante 14 Apr 24 9.33am | |
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Originally posted by silvertop
Left? Right? What on earth has that to do with anything? Those blokes Israel killed were undoubtedly c***s and few would lose a second of sleep at their demise. But... Diplomatic areas are sacred. You do NOT touch. EVER. It was an act of such crass stupidity by Israel and it has inflamed the region and put its own people at risk. Worse it has put our servicemen at risk who Israel assumes will now defend them. Yvonne Fletcher thought so as well . . .
This operation, will make the 'Charge Of The Light Brigade' seem like a simple military exercise. |
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Hrolf The Ganger 14 Apr 24 9.48am | |
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Originally posted by silvertop
Left? Right? What on earth has that to do with anything? Those blokes Israel killed were undoubtedly c***s and few would lose a second of sleep at their demise. But... Diplomatic areas are sacred. You do NOT touch. EVER. It was an act of such crass stupidity by Israel and it has inflamed the region and put its own people at risk. Worse it has put our servicemen at risk who Israel assumes will now defend them. A very interesting question. The Left have been clearly anti Israel.
I'm not quite sure why you think that these things just happen for no reason. That is extremely naive.
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NJ CLOCKTOWER Tarragona 14 Apr 24 9.48am | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
The description of Israel that follows the highlighted idea is precisely the reason why it ought not be even discussed, let alone implemented. It would precipitate a major escalation that would impact everyone on the earth in some way and has the potential for massive loss of life and even the unthinkable. Responsible, peace loving western nations don’t behave like that. So let’s hope Netanyahu has wiser heads around him and putting pressure on him from elsewhere. This is a time for diplomacy. Not for hot heads. The way to deal with Iran is to support internal dissent on top of external pressure until the people replace extremism with pragmatism. Both sides can present this as a victory to their own people. Iran because they responded. Israel became their defence systems worked. Let’s hope they are both content with that. For Netanyahu this can be milked as more than a victory. It has reduced the focus on their own behaviour in Gaza and cast them again as the victim. It has also enabled them to test, in a real situation, their air defence systems and prove they are effective, both to their own people and to their adversaries. Iran did not overwhelm it and ought now be dissuaded from trying again. Maybe some good can now be extracted from what looked awful last night. With effective international diplomacy maybe some serious negotiations can start that will result in, if not a rapprochement, at least a stable stand off.
We could go down that road of non solving methods. Like the implementation of economic sanctions These sanctions can target specific industries or individuals involved in the conflict, and are aimed at influencing the behavior of the opposing party. This has never worked. Increasing military readiness would be a better step and deterrence measures should be considered as a means of demonstrating strength and deterring further aggression. Iran's first attack on Israel failed miserably. Iran's military is no match for the tiny military of Israel and the USA.. Also, what you need to understand when trying to implement your methods is that extremist views, are often deeply entrenched and resistant to reason. This is very important and it's something everybody seems to miss, when it comes to these type of conflicts. These extreme views are driven by strong ideological beliefs and may be accompanied by a sense of moral superiority. Engaging in meaningful dialogue with Iranian extremists can be challenging due to their tendency to dismiss or distort rational arguments. Overcoming this challenge often requires alternative strategies, such as focusing on addressing the underlying grievances that fuel extremism or promoting moderate voices within the community.# Unfortunately in conflicts there will be the loss of many lives. Just like in all the other conflicts. Germany and Japan went from two old war mongering Nations to peaceful loving society but they had to lose a lot of lives to accomplish that also, their post-war efforts focused on rebuilding infrastructure, fostering democratic governance, and promoting human rights. These countries also sought integration into the global community through trade, diplomacy, and participating in international organizations. Additionally, collective guilt and remorse for past actions played a significant role in shaping national identities and promoting a commitment to peace.
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 14 Apr 24 10.01am | |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
That's all very nice, but are you seriously saying that if Britain were attacked by hundreds of drones and missiles you would be happy for us to respond by saying that our defences worked, and we should just ignore it? No doubt you would have sent Hitler a very strongly worded letter after he invaded Poland, been very annoyed when he entered France and threatened to stop eating German sausages when he started bombing London. If there is no alternative to fighting, then you fight. Before you do you try diplomacy and pressure to restrain and avoid escalation. In this case there is an alternative. Responding with more aggression only escalates and escalation is in no one’s interest. Responding simply because of pride is the response of the fool. Pride is a liability if it ends up hurting you. If it can be presented by both as a victory then pride can be satisfied without it causing unnecessary harm. Would I be happy if Britain was attacked by drones and missiles? Obviously not. Who would I blame? Whoever provoked it! If our defences were tested and found impregnable then I would have pride in them and their ability to counter aggressors and the stupid politicians who provoked them. So it now needs diplomacy and leadership to calm the situation and not to do anything stupid.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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ASCPFC Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 14 Apr 24 10.06am | |
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Originally posted by eagleman13
Yvonne Fletcher thought so as well . . . Good point mate - my cousin is married to her former police partner. He never got over it.
Red and Blue Army! |
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 14 Apr 24 10.16am | |
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Originally posted by NJ CLOCKTOWER
We could go down that road of non solving methods. Like the implementation of economic sanctions These sanctions can target specific industries or individuals involved in the conflict, and are aimed at influencing the behavior of the opposing party. This has never worked. Increasing military readiness would be a better step and deterrence measures should be considered as a means of demonstrating strength and deterring further aggression. Iran's first attack on Israel failed miserably. Iran's military is no match for the tiny military of Israel and the USA.. Also, what you need to understand when trying to implement your methods is that extremist views, are often deeply entrenched and resistant to reason. This is very important and it's something everybody seems to miss, when it comes to these type of conflicts. These extreme views are driven by strong ideological beliefs and may be accompanied by a sense of moral superiority. Engaging in meaningful dialogue with Iranian extremists can be challenging due to their tendency to dismiss or distort rational arguments. Overcoming this challenge often requires alternative strategies, such as focusing on addressing the underlying grievances that fuel extremism or promoting moderate voices within the community.# Unfortunately in conflicts there will be the loss of many lives. Just like in all the other conflicts. Germany and Japan went from two old war mongering Nations to peaceful loving society but they had to lose a lot of lives to accomplish that also, their post-war efforts focused on rebuilding infrastructure, fostering democratic governance, and promoting human rights. These countries also sought integration into the global community through trade, diplomacy, and participating in international organizations. Additionally, collective guilt and remorse for past actions played a significant role in shaping national identities and promoting a commitment to peace.
Stating the obvious doesn’t generally solve problems. Diplomacy is only part of the way forward. The realisation that the attack has totally failed to find targets will be a lesson well learned. That should mean that diplomacy has a more fertile ground to grow in. The first thing to try to achieve is calm and the resumption of a war of words as weapons, not drones and missiles. Then let the quiet diplomacy start. I listened to an American expert last night who made a lot of sense. He pointed out that constantly positioning Iran as a pariah and never rewarding them means they have nothing to lose. He was effectively recommending adopting a risk and reward strategy with them. Perhaps that’s what, in time, we will see.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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Hrolf The Ganger 14 Apr 24 11.03am | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
If there is no alternative to fighting, then you fight. Before you do you try diplomacy and pressure to restrain and avoid escalation. In this case there is an alternative. Responding with more aggression only escalates and escalation is in no one’s interest. Responding simply because of pride is the response of the fool. Pride is a liability if it ends up hurting you. If it can be presented by both as a victory then pride can be satisfied without it causing unnecessary harm. Would I be happy if Britain was attacked by drones and missiles? Obviously not. Who would I blame? Whoever provoked it! If our defences were tested and found impregnable then I would have pride in them and their ability to counter aggressors and the stupid politicians who provoked them. So it now needs diplomacy and leadership to calm the situation and not to do anything stupid. No one wants an escalation, but no response to this attack will only embolden Iran and anyone else who fancies attacking a Western ally. I'm not sure that restraint will actually lead to a better outcome. War is nonetheless unpredictable. What is predictable is that at some stage there will be a major conflict in the Middle East, and we had better be ready to act to protect our interests.
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steeleye20 Croydon 14 Apr 24 11.04am | |
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UK jets now actively protecting Israel, what suckers. Netanyahu expertly sucks in the west to his eternal war, it can never possibly be won, the Middle East is 95% Islamic. I suspected our involvement from the start, there have been Israel military flights detected here and increased flights to Tel Aviv from Cyprus, and of course against the Houthis largely unsuccessfully. I just hope that we are not on the ground in any way. I am watching little Palestinian children queueing to have their identities tattooed on them, so if they do not make it through the night they will be able to be identified. That is what we are now complicit in.
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