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Teddy Eagle 26 Jul 23 4.58pm | |
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Originally posted by SW19 CPFC
Constant one liners Depends how fast you move, and how soon you embrace change. I would think a lot of those target dates will get watered down once people work out the actual route to achieve the aims. Pace of change will also have to vary country to country. Always works like this – set ambitious target, then work out how to get there (and adjust accordingly). Doesn't mean you just sit on your hands and whistle as an alternative, though. It's not so much the dates as the cost.
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cryrst The garden of England 26 Jul 23 6.57pm | |
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Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
It's not so much the dates as the cost. My point exactly. If the eco warriors and all their ilk are so keen then maybe help the people financially to effect the change to greener. This includes governments who keep battering and taking to get the end goal.
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Matov 26 Jul 23 7.29pm | |
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Originally posted by SW19 CPFC
However, nuclear should play a decent role within the future energy mix. The call for ditching it entirely is nonsensical in my opinion, but it isn't affordable, practical or secure for it to be the sole energy source. Nuclear could be the primary source. Sure, issues to over-come but even so, worth investing in the research.
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell. |
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SW19 CPFC Addiscombe West 26 Jul 23 8.27pm | |
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Originally posted by Matov
Nuclear could be the primary source. Sure, issues to over-come but even so, worth investing in the research. Pretty big issues. Not sure it could ever be primary – too expensive, too complex and would take way too long. Most other sources including gas turbine and wind, solar, battery are cheaper, faster to build and cost way less per mwh over their lifetime. The cost per mwh for renewables is still dropping, whereas nuclear is increasing. Moving to a mixed energy landscape with nuclear as part of that mix means a faster and cheaper transition way from fossil fuels.
Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons. |
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SW19 CPFC Addiscombe West 26 Jul 23 8.43pm | |
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Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
It's not so much the dates as the cost. Two lines, what a rare treat. It's relative though, isn't it. You're paying for new energy sources to be built all the time. Have done for the last 50 years or more. The government will not want to be in a situation where they're moving too fast and it's costing their electorate. Hence the world 'transition' and dates that will need to be reappraised to suit. Similar to the cost of owning and running an EV – it can't be more expensive than what we pay now for combustion cars, otherwise the whole thing falls apart.
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Teddy Eagle 26 Jul 23 8.59pm | |
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Originally posted by SW19 CPFC
Two lines, what a rare treat. It's relative though, isn't it. You're paying for new energy sources to be built all the time. Have done for the last 50 years or more. The government will not want to be in a situation where they're moving too fast and it's costing their electorate. Hence the world 'transition' and dates that will need to be reappraised to suit. Similar to the cost of owning and running an EV – it can't be more expensive than what we pay now for combustion cars, otherwise the whole thing falls apart.
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SW19 CPFC Addiscombe West 26 Jul 23 9.22pm | |
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Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
I've already covered my issue with banning gas boilers (and why that won't happen in the timeframes they've given) above. It will cost too much, consumers will reject it and isn't practical in the short term. The Scots Govt. will find that out soon enough – it's up there with the just as brilliant idea of 'simply convert everything to Hydrogen'. Inevitable massive recent windback... Moronic. There are far bigger environmental fish to fry than that anyway. Would be a good move from an energy security perspective though. The sooner we can practically wean off Gas the better. In terms of heat pumps, specifically, some operate down to -22 with pretty good efficiency from what I can see. They'll be installed in new builds where they have far better insulation and need to be used less (so more cost efficient). Edited by SW19 CPFC (26 Jul 2023 9.26pm)
Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons. |
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Behind Enemy Lines Sussex 26 Jul 23 9.31pm | |
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Originally posted by SW19 CPFC
I've already covered my issue with banning gas boilers (and why that won't happen in the timeframes they've given) above. It will cost too much, consumers will reject it and isn't practical in the short term. The Scots Govt. will find that out soon enough – it's up there with the just as brilliant idea of 'simply convert everything to Hydrogen'. Inevitable massive recent windback... Moronic. There are far bigger environmental fish to fry than that anyway. Would be a good move from an energy security perspective though. The sooner we can practically wean off Gas the better. In terms of heat pumps, specifically, some operate down to -22 with pretty good efficiency from what I can see. They'll be installed in new builds where they have far better insulation and need to be used less (so more cost efficient). Edited by SW19 CPFC (26 Jul 2023 9.26pm) It’s difficult for consumers to reject heat pumps (or anything else), if the Government makes it against the law to do so. You place far too much trust in the authorities giving us a say in the process.
hats off to palace, they were always gonna be louder, and hate to say it but they were impressive ALL bouncing and singing. |
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SW19 CPFC Addiscombe West 27 Jul 23 12.05am | |
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Originally posted by Behind Enemy Lines
It’s difficult for consumers to reject heat pumps (or anything else), if the Government makes it against the law to do so. You place far too much trust in the authorities giving us a say in the process. Trust has nothing to do with it. Simple market economics. Too expensive = rejection/unaffordable = business model fail Hence the hydrogen wind back.
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dreamwaverider London 27 Jul 23 4.42am | |
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Is there anybody else out there who thinks all this global warming green energy brigade is all overkill, Who believes oil and gas still have a big place on the planet and will continue to fuel fast loud cars and bikes and aeroplanes. Edited by dreamwaverider (27 Jul 2023 4.50am)
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cryrst The garden of England 27 Jul 23 6.17am | |
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Originally posted by SW19 CPFC
I've already covered my issue with banning gas boilers (and why that won't happen in the timeframes they've given) above. It will cost too much, consumers will reject it and isn't practical in the short term. The Scots Govt. will find that out soon enough – it's up there with the just as brilliant idea of 'simply convert everything to Hydrogen'. Inevitable massive recent windback... Moronic. There are far bigger environmental fish to fry than that anyway. Would be a good move from an energy security perspective though. The sooner we can practically wean off Gas the better. In terms of heat pumps, specifically, some operate down to -22 with pretty good efficiency from what I can see. They'll be installed in new builds where they have far better insulation and need to be used less (so more cost efficient). Edited by SW19 CPFC (26 Jul 2023 9.26pm) You are correct in operating at low temperatures. The problem is that the water that heats your radiators and your hot water in most systems (depending on the refrigerant used) only gets to around 50*c. This means that your current radiators are not big enough. They need to be approximately 50%-60% bigger in surface area to allow the same amount of heat into the space. The pipework will probably need modernising for both zoning and dynamic flow due to the bigger radiators. Your hot water cylinder will need an electric element fitted to get the water past 60* c ( the L8 recommendation).
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SW19 CPFC Addiscombe West 27 Jul 23 12.55pm | |
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Originally posted by cryrst
You are correct in operating at low temperatures. The problem is that the water that heats your radiators and your hot water in most systems (depending on the refrigerant used) only gets to around 50*c. This means that your current radiators are not big enough. They need to be approximately 50%-60% bigger in surface area to allow the same amount of heat into the space. The pipework will probably need modernising for both zoning and dynamic flow due to the bigger radiators. Your hot water cylinder will need an electric element fitted to get the water past 60* c ( the L8 recommendation). That was literally my point. New builds > heat pumps Older houses/flats > very slow process of upgrading over decades either to heat pumps or electric boilers, ideally timed with the grid transition to cheaper and more secure electricity (long term) In this country at least, it's the only practical, affordable (and logical) solution.
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