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Mr_Gristle In the land of Whelk Eaters 05 Oct 17 12.45pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays I'll go for lizards in mini skirts. You'd pretty much go for most things after forty. Edited by Stirlingsays (05 Oct 2017 10.59am) :-) But speaking of grassy knolls, an Establishment that can kill a president probably doesn't have many ethical limits on what it will or will not do. Still, the odds are firmly in favour of well-planned mass murder by random nutcase. There are all too many precedents in the US, after all. And mass murder by random nutcases is terrorism, isn't it? Well I think Simon's head is large; always involved in espionage. (Name that tune)
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Mr_Gristle

In the land of Whelk Eaters 05 Oct 17 12.45pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

I'll go for lizards in mini skirts.

You'd pretty much go for most things after forty.

Edited by Stirlingsays (05 Oct 2017 10.59am)

:-)

But speaking of grassy knolls, an Establishment that can kill a president probably doesn't have many ethical limits on what it will or will not do.

Still, the odds are firmly in favour of well-planned mass murder by random nutcase. There are all too many precedents in the US, after all.

And mass murder by random nutcases is terrorism, isn't it?

Well I think Simon's head is large; always involved in espionage. (Name that tune)

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Kermit8 Hevon 05 Oct 17 12.54pm
Originally posted by Mr_Gristle :-) But speaking of grassy knolls, an Establishment that can kill a president probably doesn't have many ethical limits on what it will or will not do. Still, the odds are firmly in favour of well-planned mass murder by random nutcase. There are all too many precedents in the US, after all. And mass murder by random nutcases is terrorism, isn't it? No, you are thinking of decent people and some not so decent who try to block ultra-right nazi enablers to have the airtime to spew their bile. Thems terrorists. Big chest and massive boobs [Link]
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Kermit8

Hevon 05 Oct 17 12.54pm

Originally posted by Mr_Gristle

:-)

But speaking of grassy knolls, an Establishment that can kill a president probably doesn't have many ethical limits on what it will or will not do.

Still, the odds are firmly in favour of well-planned mass murder by random nutcase. There are all too many precedents in the US, after all.

And mass murder by random nutcases is terrorism, isn't it?

No, you are thinking of decent people and some not so decent who try to block ultra-right nazi enablers to have the airtime to spew their bile. Thems terrorists.

Big chest and massive boobs

[Link]

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hedgehog50 Croydon 05 Oct 17 12.58pm
Originally posted by Kermit8 No, you are thinking of decent people and some not so decent who try to block ultra-right nazi enablers to have the airtime to spew their bile. Thems terrorists. Like those brave IRA boys who tired to block the ultra-right Protestants you mean? We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]
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hedgehog50

Croydon 05 Oct 17 12.58pm

Originally posted by Kermit8

No, you are thinking of decent people and some not so decent who try to block ultra-right nazi enablers to have the airtime to spew their bile. Thems terrorists.

Like those brave IRA boys who tired to block the ultra-right Protestants you mean?

We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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Stirlingsays 05 Oct 17 1.03pm
Originally posted by Mr_Gristle :-) But speaking of grassy knolls, an Establishment that can kill a president probably doesn't have many ethical limits on what it will or will not do. Still, the odds are firmly in favour of well-planned mass murder by random nutcase. There are all too many precedents in the US, after all. And mass murder by random nutcases is terrorism, isn't it? To me....if you feel terrorized....in other words, change your behaviour due to these inputs...then it's terrorism. I looked into the Kennedy thing in my twenties....for me the biggest thing that pulled me away from the reasonable suspicion of conspiracy was finding out about how the nervous system reacts when shot....especially the brain. Tests done on cows, and field accounts, evidenced that the body doesn't always follow normal physics when subjected to sudden and explosive external force......Going back and to the left is in no way guaranteed. That, with the other strong evidence against Oswald...plus occam's razor finally put the last nail in the coffin for me. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

05 Oct 17 1.03pm

Originally posted by Mr_Gristle

:-)

But speaking of grassy knolls, an Establishment that can kill a president probably doesn't have many ethical limits on what it will or will not do.

Still, the odds are firmly in favour of well-planned mass murder by random nutcase. There are all too many precedents in the US, after all.

And mass murder by random nutcases is terrorism, isn't it?

To me....if you feel terrorized....in other words, change your behaviour due to these inputs...then it's terrorism.

I looked into the Kennedy thing in my twenties....for me the biggest thing that pulled me away from the reasonable suspicion of conspiracy was finding out about how the nervous system reacts when shot....especially the brain.

Tests done on cows, and field accounts, evidenced that the body doesn't always follow normal physics when subjected to sudden and explosive external force......Going back and to the left is in no way guaranteed.

That, with the other strong evidence against Oswald...plus occam's razor finally put the last nail in the coffin for me.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Mr_Gristle In the land of Whelk Eaters 05 Oct 17 1.06pm
Originally posted by Kermit8 No, you are thinking of decent people and some not so decent who try to block ultra-right nazi enablers to have the airtime to spew their bile. Thems terrorists. So, mass murder by gunfire is a constitutional right, but trying to inhibit the actions of government or it's constituency is terrorism? How could I possibly have got that so wrong..... If you put a suitable tin foil hat on, "Antifa" can easily be seen as part of the same population control strategy as the gun nuts, nazi enablers and ISIS. Have you seen the military-grade kit in use by the US to "police" its own people? Well I think Simon's head is large; always involved in espionage. (Name that tune)
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Mr_Gristle

In the land of Whelk Eaters 05 Oct 17 1.06pm

Originally posted by Kermit8

No, you are thinking of decent people and some not so decent who try to block ultra-right nazi enablers to have the airtime to spew their bile. Thems terrorists.

So, mass murder by gunfire is a constitutional right, but trying to inhibit the actions of government or it's constituency is terrorism? How could I possibly have got that so wrong.....

If you put a suitable tin foil hat on, "Antifa" can easily be seen as part of the same population control strategy as the gun nuts, nazi enablers and ISIS. Have you seen the military-grade kit in use by the US to "police" its own people?

Well I think Simon's head is large; always involved in espionage. (Name that tune)

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Mr_Gristle In the land of Whelk Eaters 05 Oct 17 1.46pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays To me....if you feel terrorized....in other words, change your behaviour due to these inputs...then it's terrorism. Quoted for truth. Well I think Simon's head is large; always involved in espionage. (Name that tune)
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Mr_Gristle

In the land of Whelk Eaters 05 Oct 17 1.46pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

To me....if you feel terrorized....in other words, change your behaviour due to these inputs...then it's terrorism.

Quoted for truth.

Well I think Simon's head is large; always involved in espionage. (Name that tune)

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Michaelawt85 Bexley 05 Oct 17 1.54pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays I'll go for lizards in mini skirts. You'd pretty much go for most things after forty. Edited by Stirlingsays (05 Oct 2017 10.59am) That reminds me. Must exfoliate tonight When I was a young girl my Mother said to me.. You listen here kid you're CPFC
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Michaelawt85

Bexley 05 Oct 17 1.54pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

I'll go for lizards in mini skirts.

You'd pretty much go for most things after forty.

Edited by Stirlingsays (05 Oct 2017 10.59am)

That reminds me.
Must exfoliate tonight

When I was a young girl my Mother said to me.. You listen here kid you're CPFC

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Ray in Houston Houston 05 Oct 17 2.50pm
Originally posted by dannyh My only thought was he must have had help from somewhere, NOT that he was some sort of US government sleeper agent, or a lizard, or MI6, or even ISIS. Interestingly, the FBI too thinks that he must have had help, but they say they have no evidence to date of any assistance. They also said that he rented an AirBNB the previous weekend that overlooked the previous weekend's music festival. Lastly, they said that they think he planned on surviving, based on stuff they'd found but would not disclose. Also, he put around 200 rounds through the hotel room door, which is how the hotel security guard was injured. This guy doesn't strike me as a calculating, cold shooter, therefore. More of a spray and hope shooter. We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.
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Ray in Houston

Houston 05 Oct 17 2.50pm

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Originally posted by dannyh

My only thought was he must have had help from somewhere, NOT that he was some sort of US government sleeper agent, or a lizard, or MI6, or even ISIS.

Interestingly, the FBI too thinks that he must have had help, but they say they have no evidence to date of any assistance. They also said that he rented an AirBNB the previous weekend that overlooked the previous weekend's music festival. Lastly, they said that they think he planned on surviving, based on stuff they'd found but would not disclose.

Also, he put around 200 rounds through the hotel room door, which is how the hotel security guard was injured. This guy doesn't strike me as a calculating, cold shooter, therefore. More of a spray and hope shooter.

We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.

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Ray in Houston Houston 05 Oct 17 3.00pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays To me....if you feel terrorized....in other words, change your behaviour due to these inputs...then it's terrorism. I looked into the Kennedy thing in my twenties....for me the biggest thing that pulled me away from the reasonable suspicion of conspiracy was finding out about how the nervous system reacts when shot....especially the brain. Tests done on cows, and field accounts, evidenced that the body doesn't always follow normal physics when subjected to sudden and explosive external force......Going back and to the left is in no way guaranteed. That, with the other strong evidence against Oswald...plus occam's razor finally put the last nail in the coffin for me. It's (yet) another myth perpetuated by Hollywood that bullets move people when they're shot. They don't, they bore holes into people. The victim would only be moved by the bullet if it impacted on the surface and thus transferred all of its energy to the body. The bullets go straight in, so the energy transfer that would translate to movement of the body doesn't occur. The body absorbs the energy (relatively) slowly as the bullet penetrates. It looks great on film and is highly satisfying if it's the bad guy that gets blown backwards through a high-rise window. It's simply not how things happen in the real world. Edited by Ray in Houston (05 Oct 2017 3.01pm) We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.
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Ray in Houston

Houston 05 Oct 17 3.00pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

To me....if you feel terrorized....in other words, change your behaviour due to these inputs...then it's terrorism.

That, with the other strong evidence against Oswald...plus occam's razor finally put the last nail in the coffin for me.

It's (yet) another myth perpetuated by Hollywood that bullets move people when they're shot. They don't, they bore holes into people. The victim would only be moved by the bullet if it impacted on the surface and thus transferred all of its energy to the body. The bullets go straight in, so the energy transfer that would translate to movement of the body doesn't occur. The body absorbs the energy (relatively) slowly as the bullet penetrates.

It looks great on film and is highly satisfying if it's the bad guy that gets blown backwards through a high-rise window. It's simply not how things happen in the real world.

Edited by Ray in Houston (05 Oct 2017 3.01pm)

We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.

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wordup 05 Oct 17 5.54pm
Originally posted by dannyh Just to be clear mine wasn't a conspiracy as such, just an educated observation based on what I know about small arms fire. Example if I was on the roof of Wembley stadium aiming into a crowd of 22 thousand at the front of a concert, with a silencer, an unlimited supply of rounds already bombed up in a magazine and 11 minutes of firing time the death toll would be much much higher, whether he was firing indiscriminately or not. The second point was that, everything else was organised meticulously with nothing left to chance, a week before he transfers money to his wife, as someone as suggested maybe this was some walkabout money before the claims against his estate started, which would mean there was lots of planning and thought going into this event, weeks before it happened. Not the acts of a crazed spontaneous lunatic more like someone who had been planning this for ages. My only thought was he must have had help from somewhere, NOT that he was some sort of US government sleeper agent, or a lizard, or MI6, or even ISIS. The death toll was what it was. He was clearly shooting on and off for a good while and hundreds of people were injured as well as 59+ dead. I think it's much more likely that that's how it actually panned out, then imagining there is some hidden aspect to it. Also, it's not that hard to wire someone money or to gradually accumulate weaponry and take guns into a hotel room. Nothing that happened was particularly 'out there' especially with current US laws. If anything that is what's disturbing about what happened.. that it wasn't all that difficult to carry out.
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wordup

05 Oct 17 5.54pm

Originally posted by dannyh

Just to be clear mine wasn't a conspiracy as such, just an educated observation based on what I know about small arms fire.

Example if I was on the roof of Wembley stadium aiming into a crowd of 22 thousand at the front of a concert, with a silencer, an unlimited supply of rounds already bombed up in a magazine and 11 minutes of firing time the death toll would be much much higher, whether he was firing indiscriminately or not.

The second point was that, everything else was organised meticulously with nothing left to chance, a week before he transfers money to his wife, as someone as suggested maybe this was some walkabout money before the claims against his estate started, which would mean there was lots of planning and thought going into this event, weeks before it happened. Not the acts of a crazed spontaneous lunatic more like someone who had been planning this for ages.

My only thought was he must have had help from somewhere, NOT that he was some sort of US government sleeper agent, or a lizard, or MI6, or even ISIS.

The death toll was what it was. He was clearly shooting on and off for a good while and hundreds of people were injured as well as 59+ dead. I think it's much more likely that that's how it actually panned out, then imagining there is some hidden aspect to it.

Also, it's not that hard to wire someone money or to gradually accumulate weaponry and take guns into a hotel room. Nothing that happened was particularly 'out there' especially with current US laws. If anything that is what's disturbing about what happened.. that it wasn't all that difficult to carry out.

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wordup 05 Oct 17 6.14pm
In any case I think the emphasis should be on the victims really and their stories and bravery. That and just common sense ways to behave when something of this nature occurs, to save lives in future. People can behave in very irrational, counter intuitive ways in extreme circumstances. I saw a clip of one group of people just standing around as the bullets rained down a good 8 minutes into this thing. Bizarre.
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wordup

05 Oct 17 6.14pm

In any case I think the emphasis should be on the victims really and their stories and bravery.

That and just common sense ways to behave when something of this nature occurs, to save lives in future. People can behave in very irrational, counter intuitive ways in extreme circumstances. I saw a clip of one group of people just standing around as the bullets rained down a good 8 minutes into this thing. Bizarre.

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Stirlingsays 05 Oct 17 6.47pm
Originally posted by Ray in Houston It's (yet) another myth perpetuated by Hollywood that bullets move people when they're shot. They don't, they bore holes into people. The victim would only be moved by the bullet if it impacted on the surface and thus transferred all of its energy to the body. The bullets go straight in, so the energy transfer that would translate to movement of the body doesn't occur. The body absorbs the energy (relatively) slowly as the bullet penetrates. It looks great on film and is highly satisfying if it's the bad guy that gets blown backwards through a high-rise window. It's simply not how things happen in the real world. Edited by Ray in Houston (05 Oct 2017 3.01pm) I should imagine that the momentum that hits the body is equal to the recoil that the shooter also feels. But yeah....I don't know much about it. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

05 Oct 17 6.47pm

Originally posted by Ray in Houston

It looks great on film and is highly satisfying if it's the bad guy that gets blown backwards through a high-rise window. It's simply not how things happen in the real world.

Edited by Ray in Houston (05 Oct 2017 3.01pm)

I should imagine that the momentum that hits the body is equal to the recoil that the shooter also feels.

But yeah....I don't know much about it.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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