No he hasn't! Economies take years to respond and therefore a judgement cannot be made until a lot of time has passed. The Dems predictions were never going to be seen immediately but there are many straws in the wind which support them now.

I welcome your agreement about trickle down economics and I agree about the need to stimulate capitalism. The question is about how you do that and to my mind starting trade wars and breaking international agreements doesn't help.

I decided to remove myself from the "Brexit" thread a while back because it became obvious it was pointless trying to reason with those with fixed minds and set positions.

I will now withdraw from this thread, and all of those in this section, because the same posters appear in them all, with equally entrenched attitudes.

People who are "Tommy Robinson" and Trump apologists all also seem to be hardline Brexiteers. As I have encountered such people many times, and in many places, before, I know when I am wasting my time.

The most obvious similar example is a chap who used to use our local pub. He was an ardent UKIP enthusiast and would bring their aims into every conversation, given the chance. He became intolerable after the referendum as he consistently crowed that they had "won" and parroted the kind of claims now known to be baseless.

Let him get onto Trump, or Robinson and the EDL, and he was in his element, wallowing in anti Muslim sentiment and blaming everything he did not approve of on the "elite", the "left", the "deep state", the "new world order" or George Soros. It was quite obvious where his sources of "information" came from. He loves InfoWars and thinks Alex Jones is a great guy!

It only took a little scratching of the surface to reveal what really drove his attitudes. He claimed to be a "patriot" who loved his country. The truth is that he loved what his country used to be, before there were any immigrants he didn't like. He would never accept the epithet but he is a closet racist.

Eventually he stopped using the pub, because people got tired of him and gave him the cold shoulder, especially when Brexit became less certain and he started to threaten violence if "the will of the people" wasn't done. No doubt he has found somewhere else where he is among more sympathetic listeners.

As it feels to me that this section is more like that other pub, and not my local, I will withdraw and let you all reinforce each other's prejudices without interference from me.

You are running out of threads to leave...

There is always 'genital mutilation' or 'brexit' and let's be honest, they are the same thing....

The battle to save western civilisation is (1) the battle to reform and largely remove the welfare state in it’s current form and therefore our reliance on debt and (2) The battle of demographics so that we can continue to democratically appose “1” and remain free to do so.

We have to get a grip on both of these things or we are screwed.

Could there ever be a socialist President of the United States?

'For the many not the few'.

Bernie Sanders has nothing in his favour except people, if he can get 1 million of them to mount his grass-roots campaign nation-wide.

He was a surprise hit last time and believes the momentum is with him.

There is a first time for everything.