A Russian invasion of a country that destroys vast areas of it with apparently the only civilians hurt due to Ukranian neo-nazis harming their own civilians to make Russians look bad.. You couldn't make it up.

It's a brutal, uncompromising invasion of a country - 'that' is the overriding factor that any exceptions are firmly seated within. People would do well to still remember that regardless of their perspective. For the avoidance of doubt I detailed multiple instances of atrocities during the invasion earlier in the thread to someone (no-one in this discussion) adamant that the Russian invasion was akin to some kind of peace keeping exercise where no civilians were killed by them. If only that were the case.

Individuals like W12 view others as manipulated sheep, when they appear to lack the basic ability to scrutinise anything outside of that, and don't how see one eyed and manipulated their own perspective is. Dissatisfied with their own society and country, they operate on a confused mix of professing love of country while simultaneously backing up absolutely any stance that attacks the West, NATO etc. Trading their real life discussions / dysfunction for an 'invent your own reality' online world where ideas like calling Ukranians defending their own country from being carpet bombed to hell 'scum' hold 'value' because RT, or someone with a basement Youtube channel who they'll never interact with told you them it does. But at least it's not the dreaded 'western media'.

My God, nobody has the balance entirely right, but for someone to look at this invasion and the misery and death its caused and blame it solely on Ukrainian scum', and say that our forefather would be ashamed of our support for them is not a rational view based on reality.

Edited by BlueJay (21 Apr 2022 10.03pm)

He denies all and any incidents of misery caused by this invasion by the Russians and clearly favours Russian sources over the West. Somehow they are 'legitimate' despite daily ridiculous bulletins from the Kremlin being factually laughable and routinely ripped to shreds.

It's one thing being Russian and basically the act of even acknowledging a war being criminalised and the Kremlin controlling everything. It's certainly another to be Western and favour Kremlin propaganda by choice over basic, observable commonplace realities of this war. I pray that if we're ever besieged in the same way they are, that types like him aren't analysing our every single move looking for fault, as they turn a complete blind eye to carpet bombing, mass graves, civilian rape, murder etc. Defies belief really. Warped.

Edited by BlueJay (21 Apr 2022 10.16pm)

And your explanation for countless areas beyond that being attacked by Russia is? As I said I'm not the one saying that there are not instances on both sides during war that are unconscionable. I'm saying that the invasion and its impact on civilians is clear and cannot be denied. You've painted it all at the feet of 'Uktranian scum' and 'Ukranian extremists' putting their own civilians at harms way. It's clearly ludicrous in the picture of this invasion.

You have a very confused view of allegiance to your country and the West that leads to you favouring Russian media and abhorrent actions and criticising the West for arming a country that Kremlin sanctioned sources make clear they want to entirely adsorb it into Russia, extinguishing Ukrananian identity in the process. Any Ukranian who is 'anti' invasion is by nature of their outlook as much 'nazi' than civilian to them. Yes, I think it's worth giving people a fighting chance against what they are facing and am glad we've stepped up.

Edited by BlueJay (21 Apr 2022 10.31pm)

During a two month mass invasion and bombing of a neighbouring country, the only 'war crimes' you can find are those from the invaded country. Get real. That tells us everything we need to know both about your 'sources' and the wildly lopsided criteria you apply to 'Ukranian scum' vs your Kremlin mates.

Yes, 5 million Ukranians have fled their country on account of suddenly being terrified of their fellow Ukranians (during a Russian invasion)... Makes perfect sense..

I'm saying that a Kremlin sanctioned view essentially categorises any Ukranian who is opposed to the Russian invasion as a neo nazi. It's not even far removed your your outlook, as you appear to offer no avenue that makes legitimat,e Ukranians defending their own country or being supported by others in that endevour. To you helping them is shameful.

You may have missed the reality that we are arming Ukraine and limiting our support to that. We're not another Russia, with a different threat or approach or crossed line every other day. Sending 'English young men' to Ukraine isn't going to happen.

Putin's conduct falls into the classic 'Dicator Trap'. Surrounded by scared yes men, with anyone able to offer honest and useful analysis long since out of the picture. That well explains this ham fisted invasion so far. The Russian people get dragged along by force rather than discussion. The whole system is a Potemkin village. Dictators leave office in a casket hence why Putin isn't about to back down unless he can claim 'something' as a victory. It's in the Wests interest to exhaust Russias ability to do a Ukraine elsewhere or make them think twice about doing so.

Edited by BlueJay (22 Apr 2022 12.44am)

The Joseph Goebbels of HOL.