Sovereignty means control over immigration.
Sovereignty means control over most other laws.
Sovereignty means independence as a separate country.

You are obsessed with money.

Money is important but few leavers voted leave because of money.

Your precious EU acts like an independent superstate and wants it's own foreign policy and even talks of an army independent of Nato.

All this from a bunch of politicians who rule in an untouchable cabal whose commission can't be removed in any practical sense and who can't even put together a coherent currency that works and whose system is so corrupt even an Italian would blush.

People aren't stupid despite what you like to think. You carry on thinking the EU is the bees knees. I'll live and die as an Englishman: I never traded in.

Edited by Stirlingsays (28 May 2019 10.44pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

There is an onion-like quality to it I agree, in that you strip away one layer, and there's another bunch of clowns pulling the strings. But at the same time there is a good argument that the more local politics is to you, the more potential there is at least to have say.

There is a certainly irony that, if say we do leave soon, the government will likely try to up the number of non EU immigrants coming in, and so will the endless immigration issue, which was key to us voting leave, be improved? I think most people voting leave recognise this fact though, and that it's a transition stage, where in a post-brexit society, politics and parties may well be in a serious slate of flux for a good while, but there is still that opportunity to shape a society and government that feels like we have a direct link to it.

If the EU had listened on immigration. If only to offer a sensible cap, we wouldn't be in this situation to begin with. Maybe in future they will have tiers of countries where say you can move or live freely between certain groups of countries, but not others. That it appears to be would have been a more sensible approach. I'm not fortunate teller of course, and it's dragged on so long, I find that I'm just observing now without trying to look ahead to what next month or next year will bring.

Apologies if I am going to come across as a bit of a lunatic but there is something seriously amiss at the moment.

We have a Conservative Leadership campaign underway in which the strongest message is being sent that if anybody who actually wins it decides to take us out of the EU without a deal, then other Conservative MP's will crash their own Government, opening the door for a Corbyn led Labour Party.

Supposedly the worst thing ever.

This is insanity. Absolute madness.

Also throw in what seems an elaborate attempt to undermine Corbyn (this expulsion of Alastair Campbell is beginning to not feel right either. Suspecting this about far, far more than him voting Lib-Dem) and I am wondering if we are on the verge of a cross-party coup.

Something along the lines of a national Government? An attempt to share the blame of revoking A50 or implementing a rigged second referendum?

Willing to accept all the abuse possible because I would be tempted to do so myself if somebody else were writing this, and it could well be me being me, but this is all stinking now to high heaven.

Remain Labour want rid of Corbyn. Remain Tories want rid of anybody who actually might see through on their manifesto promise. And the Brexit Party must be causing them to be needing a change of under pants because it upsets the entire apple-cart of Left/Right that our system is based on.

These b******s will stitch us all up if it means saving their careers and the jungle they play in.

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

It's dragged on so long I think we're all losing the plot a bit. I would say though that the EU election result has to mean something to the Conservatives though, and has to be a message. Logically, a huge chunk of their vote went to the Brexit Party and the only way to get that back is to maintain a momentum towards leaving, or at least renegotiating something meaningful if that option becomes available again.

What is the alternative? They can't back remain or let Corbyn in. It would utterly disintegrate the party, and I don't see what they would gain from crashing their own government either. If anything I think once the leadership battle is over, more agreement will develop amongst them out of desperation to get out of the other side of this intact.

You seem to have failed to address the other countless entities and individuals who believe a no deal "WTO" exit would be utterly catastrophic for their business interests, and the larger economy in general.

Like I said to Rudi though, I am sure the head of the National Farmers Union and the Police Service in Northern Island (to name but 2) are just taking the piss when they state it would be totally disastrous for them?

As for trading under WTO terms being preferential to being part of one of the largest trading bloc's in the entire world, with the economies of scale that brings, that is nonsense.

People like Rees-Mogg like to talk about the EU being protectionist, it is. FOR EU COUNTRIES. In other words UK exporters and importers currently enjoy that protection and the tariff relief that brings. Ripping that up overnight at the end of October will be a complete nightmare. For exports to the EU, as a third nation, we would see tariffs of 11.1% for agricultural goods, 15.7% for animal products and 35.4% for dairy.

Do you now understand why anyone remotely connected to farming in the UK is s***ting their pants about a no deal exit?

The average price for a British car in the EU would go up by 3000 euros per car.

Do you understand why the car companies are seriously unhappy about this and how this plus many other problems will see job losses in the automotive industry?

The government's own stats show that GDP would be 10.7% lower if we leave the EU with no deal after 15 years.

Of everything you have said here, the most scandalous and outrageous is to minimize the potential issues in Ireland.

If overnight there is suddenly introduced a hard border between NI and Ireland the Good Friday Agreement is threatened. That is according to none other than the taoiseach, and to make light of that is pretty unbelievable given the history there.

Trump lost. Badly. Hahahahahahaha.

And use the time preparing for a no deal brexit. Fail to prepare, Prepare to fail !