We never lost our national sovereignty. It's a myth which is used by the Brexit lobby to justify some extremely irresponsible claims.

Our membership cost billions? I would wager our withdrawal will cost us much more.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

The government should do far less, so called, 'governing' and certainly should not continue with much of the over-regulation and doomed-to-fail 'planning' that the EU gets up to.
We are vastly over-governed and they are incompetent and wasteful in much of what they do and tax us to the hilt.
They should confine themselves to law and order, defence, public services and social welfare. The rest should be left to businesses and people who are far more adept at doing things well and spending and investing their own money for their benefit.

The problem with "light" government is you end up with businesses run by criminals and lower standards. We need a regulatory framework to ensure both safety and a level playing field.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

I was simplifying for the benefit of the audience. (You don't need to, the audience is generally smarter than you. However, you think that your intelligence is superior to most others of your species, as proved below.)

Your emotional outburst (what emotional outburst? Explain how you came to that conclusion) is also rather obviously incorrect, it’s an observable fact that the levels of stupidity on this, or any forum for that matter, run deep and are richly varied. I mean, you’re demonstrating that right now - age clearly does not always equate to intelligence or wisdom, in fact statistically it results in gradual, sometimes aggressive, cognitive decline. Which can be a big problem if already starting from a low base.(see above. Superiority complex writ large.)

Also, and this made me chuckle, ‘Come up with’?

Expects someone to lay out and devise, in detail, an exact method for measurement as to whether we are doing better or worse because of Brexit in 5 minutes. On a forum. I’m more sure than you are about who is the ‘thick’ one here.(I asked you how it would be measured, you said "an unscientific, yet simple way of doing so would be to see how we're performing against other comparable countries still in the EU in a few years time". It's hardly an answer from someone who ranks himself in the top 5% intelligentsia. Unscientific is less than thick, it's worthless. Just say you can't answer the question.)

The point, which you’ve both missed and not responded properly to, is that a body of individuals with the qualifications, intelligence and time to do so will at some point pull together a comprehensive study that concludes either way. That conclusion will then be an excellent guide as to whether leaving or staying was or would have been the better option.(If only you'd said that, instead of pretending to have the answer) Until that occurs, I see little value in debating using ideological absolutisms either way especially when many are suggesting that the outcome is irrelevant ‘because democracy’. Slavishly adhering to ideology regardless of outcome is about as stupid as it gets.

Again - uncomfortable for some, but it may well be that the price of prosperity is in fact compromising on full Independence and having to rejoin. It also may not and we will end up better off than the EU. But you need to be open to the fact that either could turn out to be true.( I agree with you on all the rest of your snipe.)

Edited by Tim Gypsy Hill '64 (24 Feb 2023 1.18am)

Systematically dragged down by the lawmakers

Did you Master in Raëlism?

Systematically dragged down by the lawmakers

Your "heavy" government and over-regulation does practically nothing to stop criminality or low standards, both of which are rampant in socialist economies - and there is no such thing as a level playing field, just successful and unsuccessful businesses.