Fully serious. Even the recent study that was reported widely in the press as finally proving that immigration did drive down wages was almost the contrary (it actually was a revision of an earlier study and concluded that the overall impact was "very small" - [Link] ). Sector by sector review shows that a 10% increase in the proportion of immigrants resulted in just a 2% reduction in pay for the worst effected (semi/unskilled sector).

Edited by OknotOK (20 Jun 2016 3.58pm)

"It's almost like a moral decision. Except not really cos noone is going to find out," Jez, Peep Show

You believe those figures if you want and I will go with common sense. It usually serves me well.

I am torn, genuinely. I'll share this extract from an obituary of Bob Crowe... Under EU treaties and EU court judgments, big business rights to make money override the human rights of working people to defend themselves.
“EU structures are clearly undermining workers’ rights particularly in member states in the eurozone suffering permanent austerity as part of ‘bail-out’ agreements such as Ireland, Portugal and Greece,” he said.
He described the moves as a “gamechanger” as the myth of “social Europe” was being dropped completely in favour of the EU’s “fundamental four freedoms” — the free movement of capital, goods, services and labour.
Well, I’m too young to remember any promises about “social Europe” back in the 1980s. All I know is any claims about EU membership creating full employment, decent public services and people-centered human rights ring a bit hollow today.
Public services, including postal, transport, energy, education and health services, are being privatised as part of the EU austerity agenda being imposed on member states by unaccountable EU institutions.
But the voices of us working people are not being heard.
On top of that the EU is deploying troops in Africa on the pretext of humanitarian intervention while encouraging and funding fascists in Ukraine to overthrow the elected government.
The failure of the major parties to represent us has led to a political vacuum which is being filled by Tory outriders like Ukip or, worse, groups like the British National Party.
My Dad had no time for Ukip — not least because it supports the privatisation of the rail industry not only in Britain but across the European Union.
While his union RMT campaigned vigorously on the streets for public ownership of our transport networks Ukip MEPs sitting in Brussels have been demanding that member states follow EU rail directives imposing privatisation and fragmentation across the EU.
Ukip aims to add to the austerity measures being imposed on us, not fight against them.
If you’re a mother like me, forget maternity pay. Ukip also fully supports the current measures being forced upon jobseekers to take zero-hours contracts or have benefits cut.
Forget any rights to a holiday to spend that quality time with your family … and the list goes on.
Bob was often told that he was in a minority, but that never bothered him as he would often say that minority views can become majority views very quickly. He also taught me to never give up.
Bob Crow was an internationalist who believed in fighting for equality, justice and against racism around the world. His solidarity didn’t stop at the borders of “Europe.”
He had no time for bosses’ clubs like the EU or the IMF as he saw them as capitalist organisations designed to prevent international friendship and solidarity.

Your choice. I have no need to sway you either way. But that is what the evidence shows. Chose to believe your "common sense" or not.

"It's almost like a moral decision. Except not really cos noone is going to find out," Jez, Peep Show

Pretty spot on there.

As I've said. Immigration is not such an issue for me. Immigrants don't lower wages, it's the people paying the lower wages that lower wages. They don't care where their workforce comes from.

What sits uneasy with me if I vote leave is 1) What are the reasons for the mail et al owners wanting to exit. That makes me uncomfortable.
2) Gove, IDS and Boris suddenly caring about worker's rights. If that's true then I'm a Brighton fan. They'll make things worse.
3) The amount of xenophobic fearmongering among certain sections of the leave side leaves a nasty taste in my mouth.
4) If the EU disintegrates (a high possibility) will it lead to chances of conflict. (not ww3 though Dave you cockwomble)

Edited by nickgusset (20 Jun 2016 4.23pm)

And denying it's existence altogether is no better - it clearly stated 'certain sections of the leave side', not everyone with concerns.