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Ukraine Situation - Should We Be Worried?

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Stirlingsays 19 Feb 22 1.49pm
Originally posted by Badger11 I don't want Russia to invade and Putin is behaving as a bully. That said I am fed up with our soldiers coming home in body bags for somebody else's war. Our involvement should stop at sanctions. If the mighty EU is not prepared to send troops then why should we. Fully agree. Invading Ukraine will obviously lead to many deaths and no one sensible can support that. I don't support the policy of extended encroachment eastwards by Nato and the US either as it has led to this confrontation but that doesn't mean anyone thinks Putin is a good guy. He's KGB through and through. Russia is largely European should have been treated well with the view of acceptance. Instead the west with its 'money hard on' treated China like that....Which was like feeding a Tiger. The pipeline to Germany was nuts and a war here is nuts as well. A position where Russia and China are allied against you is political incompetence......These people continue on while royally fecking things up, just as well for them that they judge themselves. Edited by Stirlingsays (19 Feb 2022 1.49pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

19 Feb 22 1.49pm

Originally posted by Badger11

I don't want Russia to invade and Putin is behaving as a bully. That said I am fed up with our soldiers coming home in body bags for somebody else's war. Our involvement should stop at sanctions.

If the mighty EU is not prepared to send troops then why should we.

Fully agree.

Invading Ukraine will obviously lead to many deaths and no one sensible can support that. I don't support the policy of extended encroachment eastwards by Nato and the US either as it has led to this confrontation but that doesn't mean anyone thinks Putin is a good guy.

He's KGB through and through.

Russia is largely European should have been treated well with the view of acceptance. Instead the west with its 'money hard on' treated China like that....Which was like feeding a Tiger.

The pipeline to Germany was nuts and a war here is nuts as well.

A position where Russia and China are allied against you is political incompetence......These people continue on while royally fecking things up, just as well for them that they judge themselves.

Edited by Stirlingsays (19 Feb 2022 1.49pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Badger11 Beckenham 19 Feb 22 2.15pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle No it's not. Would they do it today? Not so sure they would. I suspect that diplomacy allied with support would be the tactic. Communism is a failed and discredited system. Even China, although still a one party state, uses the principles of capitalism to huge effect. Putin is a believer in the Soviet Union and seems determined to restore it. His acceptance of capitalism is akin to that of a mob boss. He is the danger. Not the USA. Grenada, Nicaragua, Panama all in the eighties. US has recently had anti Venezuela / Chavez stance still anti Cuba. The Monroe doctrine is still central to US foreign policy. Edited by Badger11 (19 Feb 2022 2.16pm) One more point
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Badger11

Beckenham 19 Feb 22 2.15pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

No it's not. Would they do it today? Not so sure they would. I suspect that diplomacy allied with support would be the tactic. Communism is a failed and discredited system. Even China, although still a one party state, uses the principles of capitalism to huge effect. Putin is a believer in the Soviet Union and seems determined to restore it. His acceptance of capitalism is akin to that of a mob boss. He is the danger. Not the USA.

Grenada, Nicaragua, Panama all in the eighties. US has recently had anti Venezuela / Chavez stance still anti Cuba.

The Monroe doctrine is still central to US foreign policy.

Edited by Badger11 (19 Feb 2022 2.16pm)

One more point

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steeleye20 Croydon 19 Feb 22 3.22pm
This could well escalate as Russia simply decides its not taking any more s***e from the west. And China the same.
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steeleye20

Croydon 19 Feb 22 3.22pm

This could well escalate as Russia simply decides its not taking any more s***e from the west.

And China the same.

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Forest Hillbilly in a hidey-hole 19 Feb 22 3.22pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle No it's not. Would they do it today? Not so sure they would. I suspect that diplomacy allied with support would be the tactic. Communism is a failed and discredited system. Even China, although still a one party state, uses the principles of capitalism to huge effect. Putin is a believer in the Soviet Union and seems determined to restore it. His acceptance of capitalism is akin to that of a mob boss. He is the danger. Not the USA. Enough of that 'sit-on-the-fence' Liberalism I feel the USA would do today whatever it took to protect its borders. Much like the UK with the Falklands and more recently, Gibralta. And political systems all have their failings. Capitalism is hardly a great example, where 90 of wealth is with 10% of the population, and a significant number of the population are homeless. Likewise, Cuba used to have a world-renowned health system during its Communist era. We form opinions based on the information we are (allowed to be) exposed to. I find it slightly strange that you recently criticised Trump, in spite of convincing evidence, was not going to change his political approach to some subject or other (17th Feb, US politics thread, "If Trump wins in 2024, which is always possible, though hopefully unlikely as I suspect he is more likely to be in jail, I'll still be here, if I am able to be. I will analyse and criticise just as I do now. Trump won't change. He can't. " You seem to have adopted a similar approach where you enter discussion with your views already entrenched. That may not be the case, but your posts come across as non-debatable opinion that should be taken as fact. BJ already stating that Russian action will send shock waves around the world, because he has not the slightest intention (thank goodness) of doing anything about it. Edited by Forest Hillbilly (19 Feb 2022 3.39pm) I disengage, I turn the page.
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Forest Hillbilly

in a hidey-hole 19 Feb 22 3.22pm

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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

No it's not. Would they do it today? Not so sure they would. I suspect that diplomacy allied with support would be the tactic. Communism is a failed and discredited system. Even China, although still a one party state, uses the principles of capitalism to huge effect. Putin is a believer in the Soviet Union and seems determined to restore it. His acceptance of capitalism is akin to that of a mob boss. He is the danger. Not the USA.

Enough of that 'sit-on-the-fence' Liberalism
I feel the USA would do today whatever it took to protect its borders. Much like the UK with the Falklands and more recently, Gibralta.
And political systems all have their failings. Capitalism is hardly a great example, where 90 of wealth is with 10% of the population, and a significant number of the population are homeless. Likewise, Cuba used to have a world-renowned health system during its Communist era.
We form opinions based on the information we are (allowed to be) exposed to.
I find it slightly strange that you recently criticised Trump, in spite of convincing evidence, was not going to change his political approach to some subject or other (17th Feb, US politics thread, "If Trump wins in 2024, which is always possible, though hopefully unlikely as I suspect he is more likely to be in jail, I'll still be here, if I am able to be. I will analyse and criticise just as I do now. Trump won't change. He can't. "

You seem to have adopted a similar approach where you enter discussion with your views already entrenched. That may not be the case, but your posts come across as non-debatable opinion that should be taken as fact.

BJ already stating that Russian action will send shock waves around the world, because he has not the slightest intention (thank goodness) of doing anything about it.

Edited by Forest Hillbilly (19 Feb 2022 3.39pm)

I disengage, I turn the page.

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Ouzo Dan Behind you 19 Feb 22 6.29pm
Pro Russian rebels within Ukraine have started to mobilise, refugee camps popping up in Russia, Poorly disciplined troops on both sides are already shelling each other. Its not far away now. I'll make a prediction that is probably wrong, Russia will invade 24 hours after the Olympic Ice Hockey final or at the end of the Olympics to keep Xi Jinping happy. Edited by Ouzo Dan (19 Feb 2022 6.31pm) The mountains are calling & I must go.
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Ouzo Dan

Behind you 19 Feb 22 6.29pm

Pro Russian rebels within Ukraine have started to mobilise, refugee camps popping up in Russia, Poorly disciplined troops on both sides are already shelling each other.
Its not far away now.

I'll make a prediction that is probably wrong, Russia will invade 24 hours after the Olympic Ice Hockey final or at the end of the Olympics to keep Xi Jinping happy.

Edited by Ouzo Dan (19 Feb 2022 6.31pm)

The mountains are calling & I must go.

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Ouzo Dan Behind you 19 Feb 22 6.38pm
The stance from Germany is splitting the EU/NATO down the middle, we look weak as f***. If conflicts escalate we must not rely on Germany. The mountains are calling & I must go.
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Ouzo Dan

Behind you 19 Feb 22 6.38pm

The stance from Germany is splitting the EU/NATO down the middle, we look weak as f***.
If conflicts escalate we must not rely on Germany.

The mountains are calling & I must go.

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Eaglecoops CR3 19 Feb 22 7.13pm
Originally posted by Ouzo Dan The stance from Germany is splitting the EU/NATO down the middle, we look weak as f***. If conflicts escalate we must not rely on Germany. Sounds familiar, oh yeh we sorted the commercial side of that out.
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Eaglecoops

CR3 19 Feb 22 7.13pm

Originally posted by Ouzo Dan

The stance from Germany is splitting the EU/NATO down the middle, we look weak as f***.
If conflicts escalate we must not rely on Germany.

Sounds familiar, oh yeh we sorted the commercial side of that out.

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Grumbles 19 Feb 22 9.20pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays He's KGB through and through. Edited by Stirlingsays (19 Feb 2022 1.49pm) He does use KGB style tactics but his motives seem more nationalist and popularist.
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Grumbles 19 Feb 22 9.20pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

He's KGB through and through.

Edited by Stirlingsays (19 Feb 2022 1.49pm)

He does use KGB style tactics but his motives seem more nationalist and popularist.

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Mapletree Croydon 19 Feb 22 10.22pm
Originally posted by Ouzo Dan Pro Russian rebels within Ukraine have started to mobilise, refugee camps popping up in Russia, Poorly disciplined troops on both sides are already shelling each other. Its not far away now. I'll make a prediction that is probably wrong, Russia will invade 24 hours after the Olympic Ice Hockey final or at the end of the Olympics to keep Xi Jinping happy. Edited by Ouzo Dan (19 Feb 2022 6.31pm) But the good news is your boys got a well deserved bronze in the hockey.
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Mapletree

Croydon 19 Feb 22 10.22pm

Originally posted by Ouzo Dan

Pro Russian rebels within Ukraine have started to mobilise, refugee camps popping up in Russia, Poorly disciplined troops on both sides are already shelling each other.
Its not far away now.

I'll make a prediction that is probably wrong, Russia will invade 24 hours after the Olympic Ice Hockey final or at the end of the Olympics to keep Xi Jinping happy.

Edited by Ouzo Dan (19 Feb 2022 6.31pm)

But the good news is your boys got a well deserved bronze in the hockey.

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Matov 19 Feb 22 10.25pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 This could well escalate as Russia simply decides its not taking any more s***e from the west. And who could blame it? This is the bit I truly struggle with. If Russia wants to build a gas supply pipeline direct to Germany, then why is it anybody else's business other than Russia and Germany? Ukraine is rotten to the core and yet we have Western Media openly showing propaganda of literal Neo-Nazi's teaching Grandmothers to hold wooden cut out guns and that is meant to be a good thing? Russia has been lied to by the West on numerous occasions. Threatened with all sorts and for what? Russia has freer speech than we do here in the West. Putin is far, far more popular with his own people than any comparable Western Leader. And speaks much more sense. Seek out his speeches on You Tube. His Q & A sessions with journalists. I just wish we could have leadership that was anywhere near as articulate and completely honest in his proclamations about wanting to do his very best for those whom he leads. "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.
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Matov

19 Feb 22 10.25pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

This could well escalate as Russia simply decides its not taking any more s***e from the west.

And who could blame it? This is the bit I truly struggle with. If Russia wants to build a gas supply pipeline direct to Germany, then why is it anybody else's business other than Russia and Germany?

Ukraine is rotten to the core and yet we have Western Media openly showing propaganda of literal Neo-Nazi's teaching Grandmothers to hold wooden cut out guns and that is meant to be a good thing?

Russia has been lied to by the West on numerous occasions. Threatened with all sorts and for what? Russia has freer speech than we do here in the West. Putin is far, far more popular with his own people than any comparable Western Leader.

And speaks much more sense. Seek out his speeches on You Tube. His Q & A sessions with journalists. I just wish we could have leadership that was anywhere near as articulate and completely honest in his proclamations about wanting to do his very best for those whom he leads.

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 19 Feb 22 10.51pm
Originally posted by Forest Hillbilly Enough of that 'sit-on-the-fence' Liberalism I feel the USA would do today whatever it took to protect its borders. Much like the UK with the Falklands and more recently, Gibralta. And political systems all have their failings. Capitalism is hardly a great example, where 90 of wealth is with 10% of the population, and a significant number of the population are homeless. Likewise, Cuba used to have a world-renowned health system during its Communist era. We form opinions based on the information we are (allowed to be) exposed to. I find it slightly strange that you recently criticised Trump, in spite of convincing evidence, was not going to change his political approach to some subject or other (17th Feb, US politics thread, "If Trump wins in 2024, which is always possible, though hopefully unlikely as I suspect he is more likely to be in jail, I'll still be here, if I am able to be. I will analyse and criticise just as I do now. Trump won't change. He can't. " You seem to have adopted a similar approach where you enter discussion with your views already entrenched. That may not be the case, but your posts come across as non-debatable opinion that should be taken as fact. BJ already stating that Russian action will send shock waves around the world, because he has not the slightest intention (thank goodness) of doing anything about it. Edited by Forest Hillbilly (19 Feb 2022 3.39pm) This isn't either the time to get diverted onto trivialities but when it is maybe you can explain what the "convincing evidence" is. I am unaware of any evidence, convincing or not! For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 19 Feb 22 10.51pm

Originally posted by Forest Hillbilly

Enough of that 'sit-on-the-fence' Liberalism
I feel the USA would do today whatever it took to protect its borders. Much like the UK with the Falklands and more recently, Gibralta.
And political systems all have their failings. Capitalism is hardly a great example, where 90 of wealth is with 10% of the population, and a significant number of the population are homeless. Likewise, Cuba used to have a world-renowned health system during its Communist era.
We form opinions based on the information we are (allowed to be) exposed to.
I find it slightly strange that you recently criticised Trump, in spite of convincing evidence, was not going to change his political approach to some subject or other (17th Feb, US politics thread, "If Trump wins in 2024, which is always possible, though hopefully unlikely as I suspect he is more likely to be in jail, I'll still be here, if I am able to be. I will analyse and criticise just as I do now. Trump won't change. He can't. "

BJ already stating that Russian action will send shock waves around the world, because he has not the slightest intention (thank goodness) of doing anything about it.

Edited by Forest Hillbilly (19 Feb 2022 3.39pm)

This isn't either the time to get diverted onto trivialities but when it is maybe you can explain what the "convincing evidence" is. I am unaware of any evidence, convincing or not!

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Ouzo Dan Behind you 20 Feb 22 3.28am
Originally posted by Mapletree But the good news is your boys got a well deserved bronze in the hockey. Haha I managed to watch the end of it before switching over to Palace. 5 things Slovakia loves Bryndza Halusky Slivovice Petra Vlhova Ice Hockey Smoking Probably in that order. I've missed playing hockey on the lakes this year but on the bright side if we haven't all nuked ourselves into atoms I'll be playing hockey next year with my then to be 2 1/2yr old. Haven't seen him for 5 months now. The mountains are calling & I must go.
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Ouzo Dan

Behind you 20 Feb 22 3.28am

Originally posted by Mapletree

But the good news is your boys got a well deserved bronze in the hockey.

Haha I managed to watch the end of it before switching over to Palace.

5 things Slovakia loves
Bryndza Halusky
Slivovice
Petra Vlhova
Ice Hockey
Smoking

Probably in that order.

I've missed playing hockey on the lakes this year but on the
bright side if we haven't all nuked ourselves into atoms I'll be playing hockey next year with my then to be 2 1/2yr old.
Haven't seen him for 5 months now.

The mountains are calling & I must go.

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