Sir Keir Starmer

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Sir Keir Starmer

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Matov 12 Apr 20 4.08pm
Originally posted by ex hibitionist 2nd ref wasn't policy as a vote winner, he believed in the policy, and the majority of voters voted for parties who wanted remain or 2nd ref, it's the way our system is skewered towards key seats that made opposing brexit a disaster, but I get that the will of the people had been expressed and it can't be over-rided, Starmer gets that now, calling him a moron may make you feel better about yourself but he's a damn sight smarter than either you or I If the policy was not a vote winner then why include it in an election in which, or at least this is how I understand them but feel free to correct me, the idea is to get more votes than anybody else? Because if you do push for such a policy, knowing it is not a vote winner, then that makes you far more stupid than me. "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.
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Matov

12 Apr 20 4.08pm

Originally posted by ex hibitionist

2nd ref wasn't policy as a vote winner, he believed in the policy, and the majority of voters voted for parties who wanted remain or 2nd ref, it's the way our system is skewered towards key seats that made opposing brexit a disaster, but I get that the will of the people had been expressed and it can't be over-rided, Starmer gets that now, calling him a moron may make you feel better about yourself but he's a damn sight smarter than either you or I

If the policy was not a vote winner then why include it in an election in which, or at least this is how I understand them but feel free to correct me, the idea is to get more votes than anybody else?

Because if you do push for such a policy, knowing it is not a vote winner, then that makes you far more stupid than me.

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

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Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 12 Apr 20 4.11pm
Originally posted by SavoyTruffle There was certainly an implication it was being misused, which is the criticism Starmer has levelled at the government. At yesterday's Number 10 press briefing, the Health Secretary said that the UK supply of PPE stretch to meet demand if the 'precious resource' is 'used in line with our guidance'. If they are reporting lack of PPE, is the health secretary saying they NHS aren’t using it in their guidance? Seeing as from the front line we are hearing there is a lack, how do you feel it would be appropriate for the leader of the opposition to raise this? There are clearly challenges apropos the availability of PPE and all the Health Secretary was stressing is that it should used in line with the guidance.I never interpreted his comments as an accusation that it was being mis-used.It was just common-sense advice as far as I am concerned. Keir Starmer's comments represent a different interpretation and far as I am concerned a mis-representation.The Government are doing everything in their power in relation to the procurement and delivery of PPE and perhaps Mr Starmer is aware of their efforts but still chooses to make political points at a time of national unity. I believe I have expressed my opinion on this matter with clarity and I really have nothing more to add to the debate on this issue. A difference of opinion but polarised viewpoints add to the cut and thrust of debate and can add value to such hallowed sites.Happy Easter! Edited by Willo (12 Apr 2020 4.18pm)
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Willo

South coast - west of Brighton. 12 Apr 20 4.11pm

Originally posted by SavoyTruffle

There was certainly an implication it was being misused, which is the criticism Starmer has levelled at the government.

At yesterday's Number 10 press briefing, the Health Secretary said that the UK supply of PPE stretch to meet demand if the 'precious resource' is 'used in line with our guidance'. If they are reporting lack of PPE, is the health secretary saying they NHS aren’t using it in their guidance?

Seeing as from the front line we are hearing there is a lack, how do you feel it would be appropriate for the leader of the opposition to raise this?

There are clearly challenges apropos the availability of PPE and all the Health Secretary was stressing is that it should used in line with the guidance.I never interpreted his comments as an accusation that it was being mis-used.It was just common-sense advice as far as I am concerned.

Keir Starmer's comments represent a different interpretation and far as I am concerned a mis-representation.The Government are doing everything in their power in relation to the procurement and delivery of PPE and perhaps Mr Starmer is aware of their efforts but still chooses to make political points at a time of national unity.

I believe I have expressed my opinion on this matter with clarity and I really have nothing more to add to the debate on this issue.

A difference of opinion but polarised viewpoints add to the cut and thrust of debate and can add value to such hallowed sites.Happy Easter!

Edited by Willo (12 Apr 2020 4.18pm)

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SavoyTruffle 12 Apr 20 4.30pm
Originally posted by Willo There are clearly challenges apropos the availability of PPE and all the Health Secretary was stressing is that it should used in line with the guidance.I never interpreted his comments as an accusation that it was being mis-used.It was just common-sense advice as far as I am concerned. Keir Starmer's comments represent a different interpretation and far as I am concerned a mis-representation.The Government are doing everything in their power in relation to the procurement and delivery of PPE and perhaps Mr Starmer is aware of their efforts but still chooses to make political points at a time of national unity. Unity doesn’t equal impunity. Unify around the work the NHS are doing and the guidelines already set out by the government, which is correct. Hancock says there is enough PPE, NHS front line is saying their isn’t enough, leader of the opposition has a responsibility to raise now so something can either be done about it (ordering more, improving distribution around the country) or at least by raising now, it is on record for any future enquiry. He made very clear in his comments these are unprecedented times and said he didn’t want to give the impression this was easy, but it still needs to be questioned why we are hearing one thing from the Health Sec and another from the front line. Sometimes feels complains of political point scoring from HMG MPs are an attempt to avoid scrutiny. Conservative MP Lucy Allen on her twitter saying Kier’s comments are ‘attacking NHS England’ is frankly laughable.
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SavoyTruffle

12 Apr 20 4.30pm

Originally posted by Willo

Unity doesn’t equal impunity. Unify around the work the NHS are doing and the guidelines already set out by the government, which is correct.

Hancock says there is enough PPE, NHS front line is saying their isn’t enough, leader of the opposition has a responsibility to raise now so something can either be done about it (ordering more, improving distribution around the country) or at least by raising now, it is on record for any future enquiry.

He made very clear in his comments these are unprecedented times and said he didn’t want to give the impression this was easy, but it still needs to be questioned why we are hearing one thing from the Health Sec and another from the front line.

Sometimes feels complains of political point scoring from HMG MPs are an attempt to avoid scrutiny.

Conservative MP Lucy Allen on her twitter saying Kier’s comments are ‘attacking NHS England’ is frankly laughable.

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Stirlingsays 12 Apr 20 5.05pm
Originally posted by SavoyTruffle He made very clear in his comments these are unprecedented times and said he didn’t want to give the impression this was easy, but it still needs to be questioned why we are hearing one thing from the Health Sec and another from the front line. I don't know if the complaints are reasonable or not, but what I do know is that there is a lot of Labour and left activism within the NHS. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

12 Apr 20 5.05pm

Originally posted by SavoyTruffle

He made very clear in his comments these are unprecedented times and said he didn’t want to give the impression this was easy, but it still needs to be questioned why we are hearing one thing from the Health Sec and another from the front line.

I don't know if the complaints are reasonable or not, but what I do know is that there is a lot of Labour and left activism within the NHS.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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SavoyTruffle 12 Apr 20 5.10pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays I don't know if the complaints are reasonable or not , but what I do know is that there is a lot of Labour and left activism within the NHS. ... but il make an accusation of them not being honest actors regardless... Edited by SavoyTruffle (12 Apr 2020 5.10pm) Edited by SavoyTruffle (12 Apr 2020 5.11pm)
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SavoyTruffle

12 Apr 20 5.10pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

I don't know if the complaints are reasonable or not , but what I do know is that there is a lot of Labour and left activism within the NHS.

... but il make an accusation of them not being honest actors regardless...

Edited by SavoyTruffle (12 Apr 2020 5.10pm)

Edited by SavoyTruffle (12 Apr 2020 5.11pm)

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DanH SW2 12 Apr 20 5.22pm
Mental how Keir is coming under more scrutiny on here than the actual person in charge of the country and his government.
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DanH

SW2 12 Apr 20 5.22pm

Mental how Keir is coming under more scrutiny on here than the actual person in charge of the country and his government.

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ASCPFC Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 12 Apr 20 5.28pm
Originally posted by DanH Mental how Keir is coming under more scrutiny on here than the actual person in charge of the country and his government. Yes, I too was thinking he's getting far more attention than he really deserves. Red and Blue Army!
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ASCPFC

Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 12 Apr 20 5.28pm

Originally posted by DanH

Mental how Keir is coming under more scrutiny on here than the actual person in charge of the country and his government.

Yes, I too was thinking he's getting far more attention than he really deserves.

Red and Blue Army!

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Matov 12 Apr 20 7.15pm
Originally posted by DanH Mental how Keir is coming under more scrutiny on here than the actual person in charge of the country and his government. That is because, in political terms, Starmer is far more interesting. Johnson heads a government with an 80 seat majority and polling even higher than he enjoyed back in December. He can do what he wants, faces no challenges to his authority and in short is the absolute Alpha at the moment with his recent spell in hospital probably adding to that. Now of course that might change but Starmer is by far the more interesting proposition when it comes to the slings and arrows of the sort of bulls* a sad few of us like to indulge in. He heads a Labour Party in complete meltdown. An utter basket case that has lost not only Scotland but also a huge chunk of its Northern heartlands in a 5 year period. Its tribal vote that it considered rock-solid absolutely smashed. It is a bear pit internecine warfare and where there is blood in the water, the Sharks circle. You want politics as a kind of soap-opera for ugly people then Labour is the only show in town. As matters stand, or rather stood up until a month or so again, it is f*ed. Utterly. With perhaps the most intriguing part that this current crisis might have thrown it a life-line. That all the state-interventionist wet dreams of the Corbynites are coming to fruition. Labour could, if they have the brains at the top, exploit this. Absolutely put the Tories on the ropes over the next 5 years, prod at the wounds that will open up. Or, as I suspect, just implode. Lets see. But Starmer is the new boy in town now. Got the shiny new badge. Has he got the chest for it though? I have my serious doubts about his wider political nous but perhaps I will be proved wrong. Who knows? Everything is up in the air at the moment. "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.
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Matov

12 Apr 20 7.15pm

Originally posted by DanH

Mental how Keir is coming under more scrutiny on here than the actual person in charge of the country and his government.

That is because, in political terms, Starmer is far more interesting. Johnson heads a government with an 80 seat majority and polling even higher than he enjoyed back in December.

He can do what he wants, faces no challenges to his authority and in short is the absolute Alpha at the moment with his recent spell in hospital probably adding to that.

Now of course that might change but Starmer is by far the more interesting proposition when it comes to the slings and arrows of the sort of bulls*** a sad few of us like to indulge in.

He heads a Labour Party in complete meltdown. An utter basket case that has lost not only Scotland but also a huge chunk of its Northern heartlands in a 5 year period. Its tribal vote that it considered rock-solid absolutely smashed. It is a bear pit internecine warfare and where there is blood in the water, the Sharks circle.

You want politics as a kind of soap-opera for ugly people then Labour is the only show in town.

As matters stand, or rather stood up until a month or so again, it is f***ed. Utterly.

With perhaps the most intriguing part that this current crisis might have thrown it a life-line. That all the state-interventionist wet dreams of the Corbynites are coming to fruition.

Labour could, if they have the brains at the top, exploit this. Absolutely put the Tories on the ropes over the next 5 years, prod at the wounds that will open up.

Or, as I suspect, just implode.

Lets see. But Starmer is the new boy in town now. Got the shiny new badge. Has he got the chest for it though? I have my serious doubts about his wider political nous but perhaps I will be proved wrong.

Who knows? Everything is up in the air at the moment.

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

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cryrst The garden of England 12 Apr 20 7.21pm
Originally posted by DanH Mental how Keir is coming under more scrutiny on here than the actual person in charge of the country and his government. It is his thread !
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cryrst

The garden of England 12 Apr 20 7.21pm

Originally posted by DanH

Mental how Keir is coming under more scrutiny on here than the actual person in charge of the country and his government.

It is his thread !

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dynamicdick Dormansland 12 Apr 20 8.51pm
Originally posted by SavoyTruffle Unity doesn’t equal impunity. Unify around the work the NHS are doing and the guidelines already set out by the government, which is correct. Hancock says there is enough PPE, NHS front line is saying their isn’t enough, leader of the opposition has a responsibility to raise now so something can either be done about it (ordering more, improving distribution around the country) or at least by raising now, it is on record for any future enquiry. He made very clear in his comments these are unprecedented times and said he didn’t want to give the impression this was easy, but it still needs to be questioned why we are hearing one thing from the Health Sec and another from the front line. Sometimes feels complains of political point scoring from HMG MPs are an attempt to avoid scrutiny. Conservative MP Lucy Allen on her twitter saying Kier’s comments are ‘attacking NHS England’ is frankly laughable. Starmer is political points scoring and yes he is in the main raising the PPE issue now for ‘future enquiry’ . This is where the political points scoring comes into play. The ‘unity’ thing is a smoke screen. On the whole the Government are doing a good job on what is a massive job and at least Starmer is right in saying these are unprecedented times. Nightingale London was put together at incredible speed and I don’t think I have heard any praise for the Government from the opposition of the media who need to be more responsible and less pedantic in their questioning, especially Sky who are more left wing than the BBC. All labour could offer was criticism of the alleged price being paid to ADNOC (Abu Dhabi owners) but nothing about the fact that the Birmingham equivalent has been offered for nothing. Finally, every Country in the World is trying to buy PPE and in huge volumes which, has and still is making our procurement difficult and with it the probable extortionate prices having to be paid. It’s easy to be the opposition not having to make the big decisions. Bring back Brolin
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dynamicdick

Dormansland 12 Apr 20 8.51pm

Originally posted by SavoyTruffle

Unity doesn’t equal impunity. Unify around the work the NHS are doing and the guidelines already set out by the government, which is correct.

Sometimes feels complains of political point scoring from HMG MPs are an attempt to avoid scrutiny.

Conservative MP Lucy Allen on her twitter saying Kier’s comments are ‘attacking NHS England’ is frankly laughable.

Starmer is political points scoring and yes he is in the main raising the PPE issue now for ‘future enquiry’ . This is where the political points scoring comes into play.
The ‘unity’ thing is a smoke screen. On the whole the Government are doing a good job on what is a massive job and at least Starmer is right in saying these are unprecedented times.
Nightingale London was put together at incredible speed and I don’t think I have heard any praise for the Government from the opposition of the media who need to be more responsible and less pedantic in their questioning, especially Sky who are more left wing than the BBC. All labour could offer was criticism of the alleged price being paid to ADNOC (Abu Dhabi owners) but nothing about the fact that the Birmingham equivalent has been offered for nothing.
Finally, every Country in the World is trying to buy PPE and in huge volumes which, has and still is making our procurement difficult and with it the probable extortionate prices having to be paid.
It’s easy to be the opposition not having to make the big decisions.

Bring back Brolin

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Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 12 Apr 20 9.03pm
Originally posted by dynamicdick Starmer is political points scoring and yes he is in the main raising the PPE issue now for ‘future enquiry’ . This is where the political points scoring comes into play. The ‘unity’ thing is a smoke screen. On the whole the Government are doing a good job on what is a massive job and at least Starmer is right in saying these are unprecedented times. Nightingale London was put together at incredible speed and I don’t think I have heard any praise for the Government from the opposition of the media who need to be more responsible and less pedantic in their questioning, especially Sky who are more left wing than the BBC. All labour could offer was criticism of the alleged price being paid to ADNOC (Abu Dhabi owners) but nothing about the fact that the Birmingham equivalent has been offered for nothing. Finally, every Country in the World is trying to buy PPE and in huge volumes which, has and still is making our procurement difficult and with it the probable extortionate prices having to be paid. It’s easy to be the opposition not having to make the big decisions. I say! My applause has thundered down akin to monsoon rain on a tin roof.
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Willo

South coast - west of Brighton. 12 Apr 20 9.03pm

Originally posted by dynamicdick

I say!
My applause has thundered down akin to monsoon rain on a tin roof.

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Spiderman Horsham 12 Apr 20 9.21pm
Originally posted by dynamicdick Starmer is political points scoring and yes he is in the main raising the PPE issue now for ‘future enquiry’ . This is where the political points scoring comes into play. The ‘unity’ thing is a smoke screen. On the whole the Government are doing a good job on what is a massive job and at least Starmer is right in saying these are unprecedented times. Nightingale London was put together at incredible speed and I don’t think I have heard any praise for the Government from the opposition of the media who need to be more responsible and less pedantic in their questioning, especially Sky who are more left wing than the BBC. All labour could offer was criticism of the alleged price being paid to ADNOC (Abu Dhabi owners) but nothing about the fact that the Birmingham equivalent has been offered for nothing. Finally, every Country in the World is trying to buy PPE and in huge volumes which, has and still is making our procurement difficult and with it the probable extortionate prices having to be paid. It’s easy to be the opposition not having to make the big decisions. You do realise how many cages you have probably rattled don’t you? Well said
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Spiderman

Horsham 12 Apr 20 9.21pm

Originally posted by dynamicdick

You do realise how many cages you have probably rattled don’t you?

Well said

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