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Bias against Trump
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 Wisbech Eagle  Truro Cornwall 29 Jan 19 12.24pm |
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Reading this thread from time to time is always good for a laugh. The Trump apologists are pretty much exactly the same bunch who defend Brexit. Just as with Brexit they repeat out of date arguments picked up from sites which sympathise with their prejudices. Go onto any Trump supporters site, or read the responses to the Great Orange Leader's tweets and you will find exactly the same ideas, most of which are created in the minds of buffoons like Alex Jones or on Fox "News". Trump has not been charged with anything. Yet! Mueller has not yet made his report but several of Trump's closest associates have been indicted already and either pleaded guilty or been found guilty. No-one is guilty just by association but common sense says that on the balance of probabilities something is going to be found that links Trump to illegal activity. Using cut outs and employing plausible deniability won't work 100% of the time. That aside his behaviour and ignorance is enough to disqualify him from any kind of public office. Those who apologise for such a man, even if they approve of his political direction, need to take a good hard look at themselves.
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| Stirlingsays 29 Jan 19 12.39pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Reading this thread from time to time is always good for a laugh. The Trump apologists are pretty much exactly the same bunch who defend Brexit. Just as with Brexit they repeat out of date arguments picked up from sites which sympathise with their prejudices. Go onto any Trump supporters site, or read the responses to the Great Orange Leader's tweets and you will find exactly the same ideas, most of which are created in the minds of buffoons like Alex Jones or on Fox "News". Trump has not been charged with anything. Yet! Mueller has not yet made his report but several of Trump's closest associates have been indicted already and either pleaded guilty or been found guilty. No-one is guilty just by association but common sense says that on the balance of probabilities something is going to be found that links Trump to illegal activity. Using cut outs and employing plausible deniability won't work 100% of the time. That aside his behaviour and ignorance is enough to disqualify him from any kind of public office. Those who apologise for such a man, even if they approve of his political direction, need to take a good hard look at themselves. Trump has been a corporate international business man for over thirty years....and the best you can come up with is 'on the balance of probabilities something is going to be found that links Trump to illegal activity'. Seriously???? Are you kidding me? Of course he's been involved in illegal activity. No one in international business for that long isn't. But there was no Russian collusion nor anything significant in terms of breaking laws that the neutral person on the street would regard as against the country. The sheer other worldliness of commentary like your post seems to be from some naivete social construct rather than from how the real world works. Hate to break it to you....But every politician at the top of the food chain is questionable. You just defend witch hunts because that's what the left do....while at the same time having double standards for your own political tribe.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Penge Eagle Beckenham 29 Jan 19 12.42pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Reading this thread from time to time is always good for a laugh. The Trump apologists are pretty much exactly the same bunch who defend Brexit. Just as with Brexit they repeat out of date arguments picked up from sites which sympathise with their prejudices. Go onto any Trump supporters site, or read the responses to the Great Orange Leader's tweets and you will find exactly the same ideas, most of which are created in the minds of buffoons like Alex Jones or on Fox "News". Trump has not been charged with anything. Yet! Mueller has not yet made his report but several of Trump's closest associates have been indicted already and either pleaded guilty or been found guilty. No-one is guilty just by association but common sense says that on the balance of probabilities something is going to be found that links Trump to illegal activity. Using cut outs and employing plausible deniability won't work 100% of the time. That aside his behaviour and ignorance is enough to disqualify him from any kind of public office. Those who apologise for such a man, even if they approve of his political direction, need to take a good hard look at themselves. Would be nice if you could debate some of the points with facts, reason and logic. But you have nothing! So instead resort to the common left-wing tactic of smearing the other side as stupid. Sad.
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 29 Jan 19 1.09pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Trump has been a corporate international business man for over thirty years....and the best you can come up with is 'on the balance of probabilities something is going to be found that links Trump to illegal activity'. Seriously???? Are you kidding me? Of course he's been involved in illegal activity. No one in international business for that long isn't. But there was no Russian collusion nor anything significant in terms of breaking laws that the neutral person on the street would regard as against the country. The sheer other worldliness of commentary like your post seems to be from some naivete social construct rather than from how the real world works. Hate to break it to you....But every politician at the top of the food chain is questionable. You just defend witch hunts because that's what the left do....while at the same time having double standards for your own political tribe. As I have told you before I am NOT on the left side of politics. I am a traditional conservative voter who believes in capitalism, but with a safety net to catch and protect the genuinely disadvantaged. I believe in rewarding enterprise and not rewarding laziness. I also believe in lawfulness and high standards of integrity, fairness and morality from those in high office. That Trump has been "in business for 30 years" does not qualify him for being anything other than being Trump. NY state have their teeth into him now, so as well as the Mueller enquiry he faces jeopardy from several directions. Many businessmen end up in jail with their reputations ruined if they deliberately flout the law. Has Trump? Only time will tell. Until Mueller reports no-one can say for sure what will transpire. That no charges have yet been laid is obvious, but to claim that this means there has been no collusion, or other significant illegality, is to presume far too much. I don't presume, but I do read extensively and watch the straws in the wind. Most of what has happened so far was predicted in the Steele dossier. Not all of that dossier is thought to be true but enough has already been proved to be true for Trump to be very concerned, as his body language and tweeting confirm. If I was a betting man, which I am not, I would take odds of 5 to 1 on of his being accused of something, and expect to win. I think it's much more likely than not. Describing investigations as "witch hunts" is what the guilty do. If you are innocent then you have nothing to fear from any investigation. If your crimes are technical or minor then the punishment will reflect that. Many politicians get slapped wrists for crossing lines. Nixon described Watergate as a "witch hunt" and looked what happened to him. The current one has already turned up quite a lot of witches.
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| Stirlingsays 29 Jan 19 1.19pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
As I have told you before I am NOT on the left side of politics. I am a traditional conservative voter who believes in capitalism, but with a safety net to catch and protect the genuinely disadvantaged. I believe in rewarding enterprise and not rewarding laziness. I also believe in lawfulness and high standards of integrity, fairness and morality from those in high office. That Trump has been "in business for 30 years" does not qualify him for being anything other than being Trump. NY state have their teeth into him now, so as well as the Mueller enquiry he faces jeopardy from several directions. Many businessmen end up in jail with their reputations ruined if they deliberately flout the law. Has Trump? Only time will tell. Until Mueller reports no-one can say for sure what will transpire. That no charges have yet been laid is obvious, but to claim that this means there has been no collusion, or other significant illegality, is to presume far too much. I don't presume, but I do read extensively and watch the straws in the wind. Most of what has happened so far was predicted in the Steele dossier. Not all of that dossier is thought to be true but enough has already been proved to be true for Trump to be very concerned, as his body language and tweeting confirm. If I was a betting man, which I am not, I would take odds of 5 to 1 on of his being accused of something, and expect to win. I think it's much more likely than not. Describing investigations as "witch hunts" is what the guilty do. If you are innocent then you have nothing to fear from any investigation. If your crimes are technical or minor then the punishment will reflect that. Many politicians get slapped wrists for crossing lines. Nixon described Watergate as a "witch hunt" and looked what happened to him. The current one has already turned up quite a lot of witches.
However, I want to point out a couple of issues with your post here. Mueller has already said there will be nothing significant on collusion and that they had moved on from that a long time ago. Saying they 'all do it' isn't a lame excuse....it's a description of reality. The focus upon Trump and his activities is only due to his presidency and nothing else. The focus upon how dirty someone is comes down to whose side they are on....and little else....If Clinton has won the presidency the same would have happened.....It's partisan with little in the way of objectivity. Sure some people who describe the prosecutions against as witch hunts are guilty.....and others aren't guilty and are correct......The very phrase itself is evidence of that.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| ChrisGC Wantage 29 Jan 19 1.22pm |
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Originally posted by Penge Eagle
Would be nice if you could debate some of the points with facts, reason and logic. But you have nothing! So instead resort to the common left-wing tactic of smearing the other side as stupid. Sad. It's a sad reflection on modern debate. Opinion is very often confused with facts, and the facts that don't fit the predetermined narrative shouted down with insults. The whole "Mr Orange" stuff and "you're all prejudice for considering his policies away from the personality" angle along with the irrelevant "Brexit is bad" compulsory diatribe shows that there is an inability to separate a personal feelings from the hard facts of the situation. This prejudice will always block reason when the subject is unwilling or unable to consider a different point of view objectively.
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 29 Jan 19 1.59pm |
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Originally posted by Penge Eagle
Would be nice if you could debate some of the points with facts, reason and logic. But you have nothing! So instead resort to the common left-wing tactic of smearing the other side as stupid. Sad. That you are unable to see the facts, reason and logic in my posts doesn't mean they aren't there! It just means that you either cannot see them or reject them because they conflict with your preconceptions. For the umpteenth time as I am not the least bit "left wing" it seems hardly likely I would adopt their tactics. Stupidity exists everywhere.
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 29 Jan 19 2.10pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
However, I want to point out a couple of issues with your post here. Mueller has already said there will be nothing significant on collusion and that they had moved on from that a long time ago. Saying they 'all do it' isn't a lame excuse....it's a description of reality. The focus upon Trump and his activities is only due to his presidency and nothing else. The focus upon how dirty someone is comes down to whose side they are on....and little else....If Clinton has won the presidency the same would have happened.....It's partisan with little in the way of objectivity. Sure some people who describe the prosecutions against as witch hunts are guilty.....and others aren't guilty and are correct......The very phrase itself is evidence of that.
Apology accepted. Mueller has said almost nothing, about collusion or anything else. He corrected one media claim, using very careful language, so what comes out is still unknown. Of course the attention on Trump is because he is the POTUS but NY would still have been interested in him. As being the POTUS means he is a position to impact everyone it is only right and proper that the spotline shines on him. Clinton had the spotline turned on her and many accusations made and investigations mounted. Despite that nothing of substance has been found to be of any real concern. I am not a particular fan of hers by the way and hope the next Democratic candidate is of a better quality. If Trump is guilty or innocent then it won't be a Court of public opinion who will decide that. It will be a proper one, or the Senate. Unless, of course, he packs the SCOTUS with sympathetic justices.
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 29 Jan 19 2.17pm |
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Originally posted by ChrisGC
It's a sad reflection on modern debate. Opinion is very often confused with facts, and the facts that don't fit the predetermined narrative shouted down with insults. The whole "Mr Orange" stuff and "you're all prejudice for considering his policies away from the personality" angle along with the irrelevant "Brexit is bad" compulsory diatribe shows that there is an inability to separate a personal feelings from the hard facts of the situation. This prejudice will always block reason when the subject is unwilling or unable to consider a different point of view objectively. I can't help it if you don't like real facts, but prefer "alternative" ones! The whole Trump presidency has been a circus from the moment he first hinted he would stand. He has turned politics into an extension of his reality TV show, but now conducted on Twitter and Fox. To describe it thus is not prejudice at all. It is just a reflection of reality. We need real politicians to represent our interests and not empty-headed, self-obsessed sociopaths. With Trump it's all about personality. You cannot avoid discussing it. That's what he stood on and what he will fall on too.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| Stirlingsays 29 Jan 19 3.14pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Of course the attention on Trump is because he is the POTUS but NY would still have been interested in him. As being the POTUS means he is a position to impact everyone it is only right and proper that the spotline shines on him. Opinion Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Clinton had the spotline turned on her and many accusations made and investigations mounted. Despite that nothing of substance has been found to be of any real concern. I am not a particular fan of hers by the way and hope the next Democratic candidate is of a better quality. Opinion. Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
If Trump is guilty or innocent then it won't be a Court of public opinion who will decide that. It will be a proper one, or the Senate. Unless, of course, he packs the SCOTUS with sympathetic justices. Opinion.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Stirlingsays 29 Jan 19 3.18pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Mueller has said almost nothing, about collusion or anything else. He corrected one media claim, using very careful language, so what comes out is still unknown.
The main bulk of the investigation has been around punishing Trump associates by investigating them far more rigorously than Clinton's were. If you think that's justice because Trump is president I don't agree.....I think if you are going to be this exact then it should be done to both final presidential campaigns or none at all.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Stirlingsays 29 Jan 19 3.25pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
I believe in rewarding enterprise and not rewarding laziness. I also believe in lawfulness and high standards of integrity, fairness and morality from those in high office. Do you believe in magical pixies and glitterly unicorns as well? Name me a international businessman who fits this description. There is how the world works and then there are unrealistic words written about it.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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