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 Wisbech Eagle  Truro Cornwall 21 Feb 23 9.54am |
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Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
Switzerland is a direct democracy and its citizens want to keep that system. I know that. I don't though believe that's the reason for not becoming full members of the EU. If they were poor I bet they would soon compromise their democratic system to gain membership.
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Teddy Eagle  21 Feb 23 9.56am |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
That is exactly what we have now and also had when in the EU. We elect representatives. They form governments. Governments decide, on our behalf, to take actions. Actions that include signing treaties and delegating some responsibilities. The ultimate power always rests with us. Brexit proved that. You are fixated on the role of MEPs and the European Parliament but fail to recognise these do not, and were never intended to, provide the kind of direct representation found in national parliaments. The role of a MEP is different. They oversee the legislative process. They ensure each country's national interests are raised in debates. They liaise with both the Commission and Ministries at home to try to iron out potential difficulties. Ultimate power only rests with us when, as with Brexit, a referendum is allowed and you've consistently argued against them being used.
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| Teddy Eagle 21 Feb 23 9.59am |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
I know that. I don't though believe that's the reason for not becoming full members of the EU. If they were poor I bet they would soon compromise their democratic system to gain membership. Suspicions aside the case remains that the Swiss think they're better off not joining and it appears they're right.
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 georgenorman 21 Feb 23 10.29am |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
That is exactly what we have now and also had when in the EU. We elect representatives. They form governments. Governments decide, on our behalf, to take actions. Actions that include signing treaties and delegating some responsibilities. The ultimate power always rests with us. Brexit proved that. You are fixated on the role of MEPs and the European Parliament but fail to recognise these do not, and were never intended to, provide the kind of direct representation found in national parliaments. The role of a MEP is different. They oversee the legislative process. They ensure each country's national interests are raised in debates. They liaise with both the Commission and Ministries at home to try to iron out potential difficulties. It is the exact opposite of what the EU is. The elected MEPs do not form the government, they don’t even appoint the unelected commissioners that are the sole source of EU lawmaking. Fixated you say! It is the key issue. If you can’t elect the people that make the laws that govern you, then you don’t live in a democracy.
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 21 Feb 23 10.38am |
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Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
Ultimate power only rests with us when, as with Brexit, a referendum is allowed and you've consistently argued against them being used. Simply untrue. We have a representative democracy and not a direct one. In our system we choose our representatives and they, using their wisdom, time and ability to source information, decide things for us. We delegate. Just as they can too. Referendums have no role at all in our system and their use is a miserable excuse by weak politicians who fail to do their duty.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 21 Feb 23 10.45am |
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Originally posted by georgenorman
It is the exact opposite of what the EU is. The elected MEPs do not form the government, they don’t even appoint the unelected commissioners that are the sole source of EU lawmaking. Fixated you say! It is the key issue. If you can’t elect the people that make the laws that govern you, then you don’t live in a democracy. You are at least consistent. Consistently wrong! We do elect the people that make the laws. We elect representatives. How they represent us is then delegated to them. If they then delegate that themselves, that's their decision to make. If we don't like their decisions then we choose others. If Parliament decided to rejoin the EU tomorrow it could. We chose them to make such decisions. No need for an election or, heaven forbid, another stupid referendum. People like you would moan but that's the way it could, and should, be done.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| georgenorman 21 Feb 23 10.50am |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
You are at least consistent. Consistently wrong! We do elect the people that make the laws. We elect representatives. How they represent us is then delegated to them. If they then delegate that themselves, that's their decision to make. If we don't like their decisions then we choose others. If Parliament decided to rejoin the EU tomorrow it could. We chose them to make such decisions. No need for an election or, heaven forbid, another stupid referendum. People like you would moan but that's the way it could, and should, be done. MEPs have delegated nothing, they have no such powers to delegate. If MEPs were elected that wanted to have the power to propose and frame laws themselves, how would they go about implementing that policy? Edited by georgenorman (21 Feb 2023 10.53am)
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| Teddy Eagle 21 Feb 23 11.01am |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Simply untrue. We have a representative democracy and not a direct one. In our system we choose our representatives and they, using their wisdom, time and ability to source information, decide things for us. We delegate. Just as they can too. Referendums have no role at all in our system and their use is a miserable excuse by weak politicians who fail to do their duty. We choose who makes decisions, except when the EU is involved.
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| Spiderman Horsham 21 Feb 23 1.03pm |
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Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
Yes but Switzerland is largely run on referenda and the voters didn't and don't want to join the EU. They're not all bankers and brokers. Maybe they would have had to return all the Nazi gold if they joined
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| mezzer Main Stand, Block F, Row 20 seat 1... 21 Feb 23 1.05pm |
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Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
Suspicions aside the case remains that the Swiss think they're better off not joining and it appears they're right. And there we have the EU in a nutshell. In WE's own words, "if they were poor they'd soon compromise their democratic system to gain membership". So you can be wealthy by remaining outside it, but once those less wealthy are envious of that wealth, they will do anything to join to share in that wealth. Socialism, in short. I think the Remainers didn't think it through. By remaining, you subsidise those less wealthy than you. By leaving, if things are as bad as some say they are, we've done the right thing for the country because we'll become less wealthy than those who are in it, and so can rejoin in order to benefit from all those countries in the EU which are prospering. They can subsidise us for a change. So, whichever way you look at it, Leave was the right thing to do.
Living down here does have some advantages. At least you can see them cry. |
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| Teddy Eagle 21 Feb 23 1.06pm |
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Originally posted by Spiderman
Maybe they would have had to return all the Nazi gold if they joined Then Germany could return it to relations of the original owners. Wealth distribution in action.
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ASCPFC  Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 21 Feb 23 1.11pm |
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Originally posted by Spiderman
Maybe they would have had to return all the Nazi gold if they joined They don't really need it, they now have 'Blatter's Gold'. Coming to Expedition Unknown soon.
Red and Blue Army! |
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