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Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 31 Jul 19 10.38am Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

This post has been merged from a topic called 'BBC fake news - Tommy Robinson' by Midlands Eagle

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Is that not largely the same thing?

Our culture is now largely secular but Islam, as the obvious example, dominates the culture of Muslims.

We can't easily separate 'multi religion' and multi culture in the way you suggest.

Those I have engaged with who are home schooling never mentioned multi culturalism, or Islam as their reasons for choosing to educate this way. Their concerns were all about either secularism, and the lack of "God" in the classroom, or the influence of other brands of Christianity polluting their children.

Indeed when the conversations expanded they would often express admiration for the approach to education in some Islamic countries.

As I have previously suggested the problem I see is with religion and not with any particular religion, even though some are benign and some aspects of others not.

Edited by Wisbech Eagle (31 Jul 2019 10.39am)

 


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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 31 Jul 19 11.03am Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

This post has been merged from a topic called 'BBC fake news - Tommy Robinson' by Midlands Eagle

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Those I have engaged with who are home schooling never mentioned multi culturalism, or Islam as their reasons for choosing to educate this way. Their concerns were all about either secularism, and the lack of "God" in the classroom, or the influence of other brands of Christianity polluting their children.

Indeed when the conversations expanded they would often express admiration for the approach to education in some Islamic countries.

As I have previously suggested the problem I see is with religion and not with any particular religion, even though some are benign and some aspects of others not.

Edited by Wisbech Eagle (31 Jul 2019 10.39am)

That's fair comment.

I'm afraid I have no time for people who want more 'God' in their lives.

They need psychological help to attempt unraveling years of indoctrination, not encouragement.

 

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W12 31 Jul 19 1.36pm

This post has been merged from a topic called 'BBC fake news - Tommy Robinson' by Midlands Eagle

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle


I want faith schools abolished because I believe that it would help with the issue and for no other reason. Making sure all our children get taught British values would make for a solid base on which to try to build a homogeneous society.

We are a christian country and we have no Christian groups causing issues in this country. In fact I would go further and say I know of only one religion where extremism is a major problem. why should people have their freedom taken away for your ideology? People have a choice to send their kids to these schools.

I don't suppose anyone knows the political opinion of teachers, but that never stops people making assumptions. In any case they are professionals who ought to leave their politics at home, or in the staff room. They teach what the curriculum says they must teach and if they stray then their head ought to discipline them.

You are seriously telling me you doubt that the vast majority of teachers are left wing? It's not just the teachers but the institutions. If they are all of the same ideology why would they trust them to leave their views at home rather than teach them? What incentive do they have to do that?

We have stopped "mass immigration", if indeed we ever had it. We have a system based on the need to fill shortage occupations, for family members and in the case of humanitarian need or asylum. Apart, of course, from the free movement principal implicit in being a member of the EU. It is generally accepted that this system needs better control, whatever happens with Brexit.

where is the evidence we have stopped mass immigration? Clearly this is untrue based on government statistics. How many does it need to be "mass" in your worldview?

Prosecuting all criminals is already the job of our justice system. Are you wanting us to suspend due process in some way? Good luck with that if you are.

No, I'm talking about equal justice for all. What we are doing is (1) Not sending a message that people who commit crimes are themselves but it's always down to external factors (like not enough youth clubs) and (2) We have a two tier justice system where people are arrested and convicted for mean words and jokes and serious criminals are given light sentences or let of depending on their group status or ethnicity.

Same applies to extremist institutions. They do get closed, but only after due process is followed.

Then give me some examples of this?

There are already checks by the banks to verify the sources of and destination for money remitted abroad over a set amount. Determined people will though always find a way.

Yes but it's a huge problem and is antithetical to the interests of this country

We do stop extremist preachers and others at the borders. I don't know the last time you passed through Heathrow but the checks inbound are now getting much tougher, just as the screening going out is too. Do not for one moment think nothing is being done. It is.

There are still mane "hate preachers" coming over here but plain old conservatives are getting banned due to not having the right politics (e.g. Brittany Pettibone) . It's another example of a two tier system / double standards.

So far as I am aware ritual slaughter is banned, unless you mean the way Halal meat is prepared. I agree that a good case can be made for this to be banned, although as it might result in higher imports I suspect a few farmers may disagree.

It's not banned but it should be, where no stunning is involved (illegal) we turn a blind eye. Not only that but a lot of meat we have to eat is ritually slaughtered without us knowing. We are supposed to be *the* country of animal lovers.

Everyone's voice can be heard! There are plenty of opportunities to make your feelings known. It just has to be done legally, and not in ways which obstruct the pursuit of justice or involves using hate speech.

Are you not seeing the mass censorship of conservatives by big tech? Do you not see the implicit bias of the talking heads that are invited on to mainstream media channels? Do you not see that hate speech laws themselves are a form of censorship? We are at a point now when we are on the verge of having heresy laws in this country (but only for one religion it seems)

Holding public inquiries is perfectly OK. It would enable things to be aired and explained. So long, of course, that everyone participates with an open mind.

Then why is this not happening? The grooming scandal and the Carl Beech case are great examples of where our police and judiciary (and our institutions in general) are acting in out of control ways that are only in the interest of certain sections of society and spectacularly failing to protect others. In contrast you know that Grenfell, Windrush etc will immediately get resources thrown at them (task forces, compensation schemes etc)

Can you not see how normal working people are sick of all this?

 

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Stirlingsays Flag 03 Aug 19 5.19pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

This post has been merged from a topic called 'BBC fake news - Tommy Robinson' by Midlands Eagle

I notice the lack of coverage given to the Robinson protest in London today.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 03 Aug 19 7.40pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

This post has been merged from a topic called 'BBC fake news - Tommy Robinson' by Midlands Eagle

Originally posted by W12

Can you not see how normal working people are sick of all this?

I think that whole reply is full of bias and bs.

Firstly, why do you think "working class" people who think like you are "normal"? That's just nonsense. I think people who think like you are abnormal and those who think like me completely normal. All it boils down to are different opinions, and not "normality".

We WERE a Christian country and our culture and heritage is founded on it. Today though we are largely a country of non believers. Whilst the threat certainly comes mainly from another source if we are to sustain a legally defensible position then action cannot be taken against one religion. It has to be all. I don't want to ban religion. I just want it removed from public life, including the schools.

I have no opinion on the political views of teachers. That is entirely for them personally and individually. What I expect them to do is to be professional and to teach the curriculum they are expected to teach and not insert their personal views into their teaching, whatever they might be. If they don't then I expect the system to pick it up and take the appropriate action. That's for the politicians to ensure and please be reminded we have had a conservative led government for many years now.

There is a huge amount of bs spread about that we have seen "mass immigration". What exactly do you think it means? The number of arrivals in total that exceeds the number of departures? Just from the EU? Asylum seekers included or not? How many does it need to be to be "mass"? 5%? or 10% per annum? In fact the net number is more like 0.5% mainly due to EU immigration which appears to already be reversing, due to the threat of Brexit.

Of course we must have an equal system of justice for all, and we have. The moaning and groaning that comes from the right is not because of any inequality but that they don't agree that some of their number deserve the treatment they are given. Rather than complain it's necessary that you look at why these people have fallen foul of the law and not cry foul just because they have. There are reasons why people get prosecuted, whilst some just get warnings and it's nothing at all to do with whether they are of the right or the left. It's the degree of threat they pose and the number of previous warnings.

Finsbury Park Mosque was closed for 2 years and only re-opened when new management took over. There are other examples.

If any hate preachers are slipping through the net then they have been very slippery because the level of enquiry at the main places of entry are now very severe indeed. You have to be very much more extreme than a "plain old conservative" to be banned. Even Alex Jones got in!

If "a lot of meat we have to eat is ritually slaughtered without us knowing", how do you know?

There is NO mass censorship of conservatives by "big tech". That's just moaning from their fan base. There are some who have been banned for breaking the rules, normally after repeated warnings. They own the sites. They don't want to run foul of the law by allowing hate speech to exist on their platforms. They don't want to drive away advertising revenue. It's their ball and they decide who can play with it and in which way. Don't like it? Go get another ball and another pitch to play on.

Public enquiries tend to take place after all the relevant legal proceedings have concluded, which is why they are often so delayed. Sometimes if something is urgently needed a Judge may speak out earlier. If there are lessons to be learned then they will be learned, but due process dictates that we need patience.

 


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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 03 Aug 19 8.41pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

This post has been merged from a topic called 'BBC fake news - Tommy Robinson' by Midlands Eagle

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I think that whole reply is full of bias and bs.

Firstly, why do you think "working class" people who think like you are "normal"? That's just nonsense. I think people who think like you are abnormal and those who think like me completely normal. All it boils down to are different opinions, and not "normality".

We WERE a Christian country and our culture and heritage is founded on it. Today though we are largely a country of non believers. Whilst the threat certainly comes mainly from another source if we are to sustain a legally defensible position then action cannot be taken against one religion. It has to be all. I don't want to ban religion. I just want it removed from public life, including the schools.

I have no opinion on the political views of teachers. That is entirely for them personally and individually. What I expect them to do is to be professional and to teach the curriculum they are expected to teach and not insert their personal views into their teaching, whatever they might be. If they don't then I expect the system to pick it up and take the appropriate action. That's for the politicians to ensure and please be reminded we have had a conservative led government for many years now.

There is a huge amount of bs spread about that we have seen "mass immigration". What exactly do you think it means? The number of arrivals in total that exceeds the number of departures? Just from the EU? Asylum seekers included or not? How many does it need to be to be "mass"? 5%? or 10% per annum? In fact the net number is more like 0.5% mainly due to EU immigration which appears to already be reversing, due to the threat of Brexit.

Of course we must have an equal system of justice for all, and we have. The moaning and groaning that comes from the right is not because of any inequality but that they don't agree that some of their number deserve the treatment they are given. Rather than complain it's necessary that you look at why these people have fallen foul of the law and not cry foul just because they have. There are reasons why people get prosecuted, whilst some just get warnings and it's nothing at all to do with whether they are of the right or the left. It's the degree of threat they pose and the number of previous warnings.

Finsbury Park Mosque was closed for 2 years and only re-opened when new management took over. There are other examples.

If any hate preachers are slipping through the net then they have been very slippery because the level of enquiry at the main places of entry are now very severe indeed. You have to be very much more extreme than a "plain old conservative" to be banned. Even Alex Jones got in!

If "a lot of meat we have to eat is ritually slaughtered without us knowing", how do you know?

There is NO mass censorship of conservatives by "big tech". That's just moaning from their fan base. There are some who have been banned for breaking the rules, normally after repeated warnings. They own the sites. They don't want to run foul of the law by allowing hate speech to exist on their platforms. They don't want to drive away advertising revenue. It's their ball and they decide who can play with it and in which way. Don't like it? Go get another ball and another pitch to play on.

Public enquiries tend to take place after all the relevant legal proceedings have concluded, which is why they are often so delayed. Sometimes if something is urgently needed a Judge may speak out earlier. If there are lessons to be learned then they will be learned, but due process dictates that we need patience.

You do talk some rubbish.

A towns worth of immigrants arrive here every year net.

You think that is sustainable?


 

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Stirlingsays Flag 03 Aug 19 8.41pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

This post has been merged from a topic called 'BBC fake news - Tommy Robinson' by Midlands Eagle

Could anyone be bothered to read that? I couldn't.

PS....Hrolf, you deserve a medal.

Edited by Stirlingsays (03 Aug 2019 8.42pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 03 Aug 19 9.31pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

This post has been merged from a topic called 'BBC fake news - Tommy Robinson' by Midlands Eagle

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

You do talk some rubbish.

A towns worth of immigrants arrive here every year net.

You think that is sustainable?


Only some?

I thought the general view on here was that any opinion that doesn't match their own is rubbish.

Whether it is sustainable is down to factors as yet unknown, like our economic growth, birth rate and increasing average longevity.

Whatever it is it isn't "mass", which indicates it's huge and potentially out of control. We have a points based system to come to the UK to either work, study or train for immigrants outside the EU. We don't need to discuss the situation inside the EU, which is well understood. Then there are those who enter on family visas or as refugees.

This is a controlled system which has been very much tightened in the last 15 years or so. What matters is not the use of emotional terminology like "mass" but whether the scale matches the need and whether sufficient infrastructure resources are put in place to cope. We have definitely failed on the latter, caused by other priorities as a consequence of the economic recession which followed the banking crisis.

Illegal immigration remains a problem for which there are no easy answers.

Complaining about how things are done now, under the management of a long standing conservative government, doesn't begin to suggest improvements. So what would you seek to change, that isn't already being planned to change?

By the way I have long said no-one needs to read my posts. That's especially true of posts in direct response to another.

I am therefore very glad to note that someone didn't bother although why they thought it necessary to announce their lack of interest beats me!

 


For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 03 Aug 19 10.19pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

This post has been merged from a topic called 'BBC fake news - Tommy Robinson' by Midlands Eagle

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Could anyone be bothered to read that? I couldn't.

PS....Hrolf, you deserve a medal.

Edited by Stirlingsays (03 Aug 2019 8.42pm)

Whenever anyone says that, it reminds me of 'Catch That Pigeon'.

 

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 03 Aug 19 10.26pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

This post has been merged from a topic called 'BBC fake news - Tommy Robinson' by Midlands Eagle

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Only some?

I thought the general view on here was that any opinion that doesn't match their own is rubbish.

Whether it is sustainable is down to factors as yet unknown, like our economic growth, birth rate and increasing average longevity.

Whatever it is it isn't "mass", which indicates it's huge and potentially out of control. We have a points based system to come to the UK to either work, study or train for immigrants outside the EU. We don't need to discuss the situation inside the EU, which is well understood. Then there are those who enter on family visas or as refugees.

This is a controlled system which has been very much tightened in the last 15 years or so. What matters is not the use of emotional terminology like "mass" but whether the scale matches the need and whether sufficient infrastructure resources are put in place to cope. We have definitely failed on the latter, caused by other priorities as a consequence of the economic recession which followed the banking crisis.

Illegal immigration remains a problem for which there are no easy answers.

Complaining about how things are done now, under the management of a long standing conservative government, doesn't begin to suggest improvements. So what would you seek to change, that isn't already being planned to change?

By the way I have long said no-one needs to read my posts. That's especially true of posts in direct response to another.

I am therefore very glad to note that someone didn't bother although why they thought it necessary to announce their lack of interest beats me!


The birth rate was really low this year and has been dropping for some years.
Despite that, when the next census is taken in '21, I expect people will be shocked by the rise in population, mostly caused by net immigration.

I suspect that the government will scrap the census soon because of what it will reveal. Of course, only legals will fill it in, so the actual numbers will be even higher.


Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (04 Aug 2019 8.41am)

 

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Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 04 Aug 19 10.17am Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

This post has been merged from a topic called 'BBC fake news - Tommy Robinson' by Midlands Eagle

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger


The birth rate was really low this year and has been dropping for some years.
Despite that, when the next census is taken in '21, I expect people will be shocked by the rise in population, mostly caused by net immigration.

I suspect that the government will scrap the census soon because of what it will reveal. Of course, only legals will fill it in, so the actual numbers will be even higher.


Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (04 Aug 2019 8.41am)

This is not an issue restricted to the UK. It is a worldwide trend which has been the result of population growth elsewhere and technology. Every era produces benefits and challenges and this one is no different. Look at this:-

[Link]

So I ask you again, what do you think can be practically done to change this in any reasonable, meaningful way that will have anything other than a marginal impact?

Is it not better to accept that we are part of a global economy in which population shifts are inevitable and try to manage our resources, and protect our culture, within that framework?

Behaving like King Canute is to just pretend you can stop the tide. Some things are just more powerful than wishes and hopes. Better to harness the power of the tide than to try to stop it.

 


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Badger11 Flag Beckenham 04 Aug 19 10.21am Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

This post has been merged from a topic called 'BBC fake news - Tommy Robinson' by Midlands Eagle

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

This is not an issue restricted to the UK. It is a worldwide trend which has been the result of population growth elsewhere and technology. Every era produces benefits and challenges and this one is no different. Look at this:-

[Link]

So I ask you again, what do you think can be practically done to change this in any reasonable, meaningful way that will have anything other than a marginal impact?

Is it not better to accept that we are part of a global economy in which population shifts are inevitable and try to manage our resources, and protect our culture, within that framework?

Behaving like King Canute is to just pretend you can stop the tide.
Some things are just more powerful than wishes and hopes. Better to harness the power of the tide than to try to stop it.

Pedant note. Actually Canute was making a point to his obsequious servants that even an all powerful King has his limits and that even he couldn't hold back the tide.

 


One more point

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