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Ukraine Situation - Should We Be Worried?

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards georgenorman Flag 09 Apr 22 6.51am Send a Private Message to georgenorman Add georgenorman as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Whether, or not, you think you could do it better doesn't change facts. Governments administer how we raise taxes and how we spend the money.

That's not the issue. What I asked was whether you proposed to just ignore the plight of the severely affected and just blame the government for their plight?

I didn't say I could do it better, you are putting words in my mouth.

Certainly governments set taxation rates. Taxes are collected by all sorts of people and organistations. How it is spent, within government (national and local) specified budgets, is largely down to the many and various bureaucracies where waste, inefficiency, corruption and incompetence are commonplace.

People are relatively poor for a great number of reasons - one of them is governments, another is heavy taxation, particularly VAT.


Edited by georgenorman (09 Apr 2022 6.58am)

 

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Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 09 Apr 22 7.56am Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by georgenorman

I didn't say I could do it better, you are putting words in my mouth.

Certainly governments set taxation rates. Taxes are collected by all sorts of people and organistations. How it is spent, within government (national and local) specified budgets, is largely down to the many and various bureaucracies where waste, inefficiency, corruption and incompetence are commonplace.

People are relatively poor for a great number of reasons - one of them is governments, another is heavy taxation, particularly VAT.


Edited by georgenorman (09 Apr 2022 6.58am)

You are addressing another issue. Complaining about government inefficient and corruption, especially that done by the tribe you disapprove of, is a routine.

It won't though make the cake any bigger, and if some are now only getting crumbs, we will need to make the slices taken by others a little smaller.

What I am addressing is whether and how we do that. Do people accept the need, or are going to demand their slice stays the same size? In which case, some will be eating only crumbs.

As we will now be spending a greater proportion of our income on energy and food, the amount of VAT raised will decrease. Energy attracts only 5% VAT, food nil. That alone means the tax take elsewhere must increase.

I cannot see any alternatives to tax hikes coming down the road later this year.

 


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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards georgenorman Flag 09 Apr 22 9.08am Send a Private Message to georgenorman Add georgenorman as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

You are addressing another issue. Complaining about government inefficient and corruption, especially that done by the tribe you disapprove of, is a routine.

It won't though make the cake any bigger, and if some are now only getting crumbs, we will need to make the slices taken by others a little smaller.

What I am addressing is whether and how we do that. Do people accept the need, or are going to demand their slice stays the same size? In which case, some will be eating only crumbs.

As we will now be spending a greater proportion of our income on energy and food, the amount of VAT raised will decrease. Energy attracts only 5% VAT, food nil. That alone means the tax take elsewhere must increase.

I cannot see any alternatives to tax hikes coming down the road later this year.

The bakery is being run by those who have no skill in efficiently making cake.

Edited by georgenorman (09 Apr 2022 9.12am)

 

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steeleye20 Flag Croydon 09 Apr 22 11.03am Send a Private Message to steeleye20 Add steeleye20 as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Blaming any individual, Chancellor or road sweeper, for the situation we face because of the events of the last 2 years, is daft.

We could have avoided Brexit, but not Covid, or Putin's aggression, and it's impact on the price of energy and food.

There are no magic money trees. We cannot just keep borrowing. Taxes will have to be raised, and the best way to do that, which avoids impacting the most vulnerable, is via income tax.

Which conflicts with Sunak's most recent statement, so he may well not be Chancellor for much longer. There may well also have to be higher corporation taxes, and a wealth tax, but rise they must.

Sunak has cancelled corporation tax increases and will not hear of wealth or windfall taxes, he has already hiked general taxation by record levels not seen since WW2.

He has no connection or understanding of normal people and lives in a world of tax breaks for his rich banker mates.

His tax rises are only making matters worse and he knows it, now he is stuck trying to repair the damage he has done by inflicting more.

But it is a doomed cycle of depressed incomes without the ability to pay or contribute, economies need stimulus not looking under the carpet for a 10p piece.

High prices rampant inflation are not caused by borrowing extra for covid, they are to pay for his and the tories world of being asset rich as an economy.

He even had to admit that brexit is harming trade (by 15%) it's even penetrating to him.

The Chiltern Hundreds for Sunak, or be exiled to Cornwall to join you WE, you would go well together.


 

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BlueJay Flag UK 09 Apr 22 12.23pm

"Another 132 civilians have been found shot in Ukrainian town of Makariv which has been 40% destroyed by Russian occupation, says mayor

Similar scenes have been found in the nearby town of Bucha, where more than 400 dead civilians were discovered. The majority had also been gunned down.

Workers unearthed bodies from a mass grave in the commuter town, as graphic evidence of dozens of killings emerged following the withdrawal of Russian forces.

It also comes after two Russian missiles struck a railway station in the eastern city of Kramatorsk, killing at least 52 people who were attempting to flee west."

 

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Stirlingsays Flag 09 Apr 22 1.53pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

The serial numbers on the rocket motor of the missile should be able to determine who inherited/built the rocket and fired it....well, in theory as you can never be certain.

Western journalists filmed the serial number of Tochka-U that exploded at the train station in Kramatorsk. According to Russia, the ownership of the missile belongs to Ukrainian Armed Forces.

This doesn't mean that it's correct because I have no way of verifying this and there is also the reality that munitions could have been taken or kept back....then again, survival of the rocket is unlikely.

Anyway I'll be interested to see how this is reported.


Edited by Stirlingsays (09 Apr 2022 1.59pm)

serialnumber.JPG Attachment: serialnumber.JPG (267.01Kb)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Stirlingsays Flag 09 Apr 22 2.18pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

What we need are independent investigators at these scenes collecting evidence and ascertaining, without favour, what the truth is from competing claims. I notice that even the BBC now ensures that it puts Ukraine claims or Russia claims when it writes its articles even though you can see what it thinks.

The idea of independent investigators at war crime scenes is of course ridiculous as war is the very breakdown of organised administration.

The recent war crimes in Bucha are a case in point. I've been looking at this from both sides recently and I always tend towards occam's razor, which would point at Russia....or at the least mainly Russia as what you are looking at are a series of incidents over a time span.

However, there are questions that need investigating, why were some bodies in the streets wearing white armbands, when that indicates Russian support. Why were there no reports of these crimes until days after Ukrainian forces took over.

However, personally I think these are mostly Russian due to the scale and time span.

You hope that the truth of what happened there will come out, whichever way.

Edited by Stirlingsays (09 Apr 2022 2.20pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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BlueJay Flag UK 09 Apr 22 2.47pm

'Country who invaded and indiscriminately murdered civilians of a country they wish to claim as their own, deny responsibility for carnage caused' shocker.

Russian logic: "Russia invades Ukraine, so Ukraine bombs itself to make Russia look bad."

How much Kremlin propaganda has to be spouted, bombings witnessed and civilians slayed, before Russia stops being a 'trusted source'. It has consistently been their 'go to' to blame every single war crime (maternity hospital, bombed theatre with children inside, mass graves) committed on 'Ukraine attacking itself'. A false flag mantra. Attempts to relentlessly look for an Anti Ukraine angle are doing Putin's work for him, and overshadow unfounded claims of false flags, or instances of technical malfunction and the like.

The situation in Ukraine is abundantly clear, who the aggressor is, is abundantly clear. The aggression and slaying needs to stop, and only one country can make that call. It isn't Ukraine who apparently should be having their claims investigated in every instance, as if that's what the focus should be on right now. It's a Russian invasion of a neighbouring country, that would seem to be the pertinent fact and feed into what is occurring on the ground. Their country is literally being blown to pieces by a foreign invader. People should seek not to get caught in the weeds by those whose allegiance is certainly not to those around them or to the values of the West. There are intentional efforts to diminish support for Ukraine when they clearly very much need it.


Edited by BlueJay (09 Apr 2022 4.11pm)

 

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BlueJay Flag UK 09 Apr 22 3.38pm

Russia to fast-track adoptions of Ukrainian children 'forcibly deported' after their parents were killed by Putin's troops, authorities say - [Link]

"In a statement on Facebook, Lyudmila Denisova said that the Russian Federation is changing legislation to allow "the accelerated procedure of adoption of children from Donbas."

"Now the Russians, firing rockets and tanks at the homes of Ukrainian citizens, kill parents and kidnap our children in the occupied territories of East and South Ukraine," she said.

"The first cases of deportation to Russia were reported at the end of March, when Pyotr Andryuschenko, an assistant to Mariupol's mayor, said that 4,000 to 4,500 Mariupol residents were "forcibly" moved, without their passports, to the Russian city of Taganrog.

Wel, I mean we could just call it what it is. Human trafficking, genocide etc. The Nazis Lebensborn policy essentially. This isn't a 'both sides' point in time for anyone with normal sensibilities.

Edited by BlueJay (09 Apr 2022 3.42pm)

 

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Stirlingsays Flag 09 Apr 22 3.59pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Referring back to my post on the train station attack in Kramatorsk.

You would think that satellites are aimed over the conflict zones at this point. Are those satellites powerful enough to record missiles that enter airspace? If so they can plot their time, trajectory and path as it enters airspace, and so be able to track its original position back. Maybe that can only be done once the missile reaches a certain height and it can't be done with these smaller missiles.

Then again, you would think that with the number of drones in use that most missile activity would be recorded.

It would certainly resolve those situations.

However, you would have to rely upon the honesty of those in control of the information and they aren't going to release information that hurts their own narratives.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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BlueJay Flag UK 09 Apr 22 4.51pm

Before it became clear that the missile had hit civilians, pro-Russian telegram channels claimed it had been deliberately launched into "a crowd of Ukrainian militants at the Kramatorsk railway station". Comments that have now edited or deleted (similar to the MH-17 incident really - claim then deny responsibility as facts emerge).

Another Russian channel the night prior advised civilians in Kramatorsk and neighbouring towns not to evacuate by rail.

In a 'stunning coincidence' that very day, the Russian Defense Ministry actually admitted it had launched missiles at three railway stations in Donetsk towns (at 'Ukrainian reserves’ armaments and military equipment'), but later denied striking Kramatorsk calling it a 'provocation'.

I'm hesitant to even bother with this, so that will be my last word on it. It's the big picture that matters, not Russian and far right talking points designed to fixate and on the victim of invasion rather than perpetrators of it.

"Russia invades Ukraine, so Ukraine bombs itself to make Russia look bad" logic.

The bulk of consideration is sensibly lent towards the country bombing the hell out of their neighbour for weeks, and the clear as days shells of cities and mass graves that have resulted from it.

Edited by BlueJay (09 Apr 2022 4.52pm)

 

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Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 09 Apr 22 5.53pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by steeleye20

Sunak has cancelled corporation tax increases and will not hear of wealth or windfall taxes, he has already hiked general taxation by record levels not seen since WW2.

He has no connection or understanding of normal people and lives in a world of tax breaks for his rich banker mates.

His tax rises are only making matters worse and he knows it, now he is stuck trying to repair the damage he has done by inflicting more.

But it is a doomed cycle of depressed incomes without the ability to pay or contribute, economies need stimulus not looking under the carpet for a 10p piece.

High prices rampant inflation are not caused by borrowing extra for covid, they are to pay for his and the tories world of being asset rich as an economy.

He even had to admit that brexit is harming trade (by 15%) it's even penetrating to him.

The Chiltern Hundreds for Sunak, or be exiled to Cornwall to join you WE, you would go well together.


I think you will find it's caused by the huge rises in the cost of energy, which is now exacerbated by Putin's war, as are the rises in food prices, which started with Brexit and made worse during Covid's impact on world trade.

I am not a fan of this government, but to believe our problems can be laid at the door of greedy bankers is clear and obvious nonsense.

 


For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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