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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 19 Feb 23 10.44pm | |
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Originally posted by georgenorman
Unelected EU Commissioners propose and frame EU law. You are again speaking from prejudice and not from knowledge. Do some serious study. EU Commissioners are managers who each hold a specific portfolio. They are appointed by the Council of Ministers. Each member country is represented on the Council and that representation is determined by their voters. The Parliament can dismiss a Commissioner, so it does have real power. It doesn't work in the same way as national Parliaments because that's not its function. The EU works through devolved powers, by an acceptance that some things are more efficiently done in concert with others. It's the principal of subsidiarity that you completely fail to understand. Thousands of years ago every little community had to defend itself against its neighbours. Then localised leaders emerged who The EU is not a military alliance, but it follows the same principles in other areas. If it delivers better and more efficient answers than handling things on our own what's the problem? Only the xenophobic believe that doing it all ourselves is somehow better, whatever the actual cost.
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georgenorman 20 Feb 23 8.06am | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
You are again speaking from prejudice and not from knowledge. Do some serious study. EU Commissioners are managers who each hold a specific portfolio. They are appointed by the Council of Ministers. Each member country is represented on the Council and that representation is determined by their voters. The Parliament can dismiss a Commissioner, so it does have real power. It doesn't work in the same way as national Parliaments because that's not its function. The EU works through devolved powers, by an acceptance that some things are more efficiently done in concert with others. It's the principal of subsidiarity that you completely fail to understand. Thousands of years ago every little community had to defend itself against its neighbours. Then localised leaders emerged who The EU is not a military alliance, but it follows the same principles in other areas. If it delivers better and more efficient answers than handling things on our own what's the problem? Only the xenophobic believe that doing it all ourselves is somehow better, whatever the actual cost. Thanks for confirming that the only body in the EU that can propose and frame laws is the unelected EU Commission and that the elected MEPs cannot propose any laws and that EU citizens cannot vote for or against the people that make the laws that govern them. Such citizens do not live in a democracy.
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 20 Feb 23 8.58am | |
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Originally posted by georgenorman
Thanks for confirming that the only body in the EU that can propose and frame laws is the unelected EU Commission and that the elected MEPs cannot propose any laws and that EU citizens cannot vote for or against the people that make the laws that govern them. Such citizens do not live in a democracy. I didn't "confirm" anything of the sort! You are just allowing your prejudice to see things which aren't there. The Commission works under delegated powers given to it via the Treaties. Treaties which are established by governments who are democratically chosen by the people. The Parliament scrutinises their work, suggests improvements, instructs the Commission to propose other legislation and, together with the Council enacts the laws. That it works differently to a national Parliament doesn't mean it isn't democratic. The real question is whether it delivers better outcomes for the people it serves.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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georgenorman 20 Feb 23 9.17am | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
I didn't "confirm" anything of the sort! You are just allowing your prejudice to see things which aren't there. The Commission works under delegated powers given to it via the Treaties. Treaties which are established by governments who are democratically chosen by the people. The Parliament scrutinises their work, suggests improvements, instructs the Commission to propose other legislation and, together with the Council enacts the laws. That it works differently to a national Parliament doesn't mean it isn't democratic. The real question is whether it delivers better outcomes for the people it serves. The real question is can EU citizens elect the people that make the laws that govern them. The answer is that they cannot. What is the point of them voting for MEPs who, if they have any policies or manifestos, have no means whatsoever of implementing them.
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PalazioVecchio south pole 20 Feb 23 10.19am | |
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you want a metaphor for the EU economy ? all the wine growers. They are paid tax-money to produce crap that nobody wants to drink, nobody wants to buy anymore. and then all the surplus wine flushed down the drain or converted into industrial-cleaner. While you are working hard in your City, paying taxes, living in a little flat and travelling on the Tube......those wine-growers are living on an estate, driving a nice car and staying in bed every morning. Edited by PalazioVecchio (20 Feb 2023 10.20am)
Kayla did Anfield & Old Trafford |
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HKOwen Hong Kong 20 Feb 23 10.54am | |
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Originally posted by georgenorman
The real question is can EU citizens elect the people that make the laws that govern them. The answer is that they cannot. What is the point of them voting for MEPs who, if they have any policies or manifestos, have no means whatsoever of implementing them. You are banging your head against a wall with some on here.
Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance. |
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georgenorman 20 Feb 23 11.32am | |
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Originally posted by HKOwen
You are banging your head against a wall with some on here. I'm trying to bang their heads against a wall.
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steeleye20 Croydon 20 Feb 23 12.38pm | |
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Haha they think the House if Lords is a democracy. Looking at our version of democracy the EU is blessed without us. For too many here voting is not choosing between arguments but airing and confirming their prejudices.
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georgenorman 20 Feb 23 1.34pm | |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
Haha they think the House if Lords is a democracy. Looking at our version of democracy the EU is blessed without us. For too many here voting is not choosing between arguments but airing and confirming their prejudices. No I don't. The second chamber should either be abolished altogether (my preference as it means less government) or it should be wholly elected.
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CPFC1965 Warrington 20 Feb 23 2.41pm | |
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Not entirely sure what this argument is about but I thought we'd left. What they do is mute, we've got our own incompetents to deal with.
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steeleye20 Croydon 20 Feb 23 3.20pm | |
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Once again Starmer is offering to support whatever NI deal as he did with the Johnson debacle which caused the problem in the first place. Did NI actually want a border in the Irish sea? Talking of democracy what right do we have to assert ourselves in this manner, surely it should be up to the NI people themselves.
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 20 Feb 23 5.30pm | |
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Originally posted by georgenorman
The real question is can EU citizens elect the people that make the laws that govern them. The answer is that they cannot. What is the point of them voting for MEPs who, if they have any policies or manifestos, have no means whatsoever of implementing them. That's not the important question. It's just the one that the xenophobes want it to be about. The important question is which system delivers the best outcomes. A Parliament of the type you seem to want could not deliver what you want. It's hard enough for national Parliaments to function effectively. Trying to do it for 27 countries would be impossible and get no-where at all. It would just end up in a mess. Delegating powers to an executive and then scrutinising their work delivers progress and that's, ultimately what matters. The bottom line is always that Article 50 exists, so national Parliaments always hold the final say. Only the British have so far been stupid enough to use it.
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