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Mwncisee Middlesbrough 10 Jun 21 9.43am | |
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Originally posted by Mstrobez
It actually appears to be more a staff salary thing in conjunction with a number of other outlandish demands. Perhaps he was never really gonna join Palace to begin with. Is it outlandish demands? Do we know that, or is it even hinted at? Granted we only have the media speculation to go on but I have seen no mention anywhere of any other reason than him wanting to bring his own staff and us not wanting to sack some of ours to make the room for them. If it's a question of wages then I'd certainly say not sign a mediocre player for £40,000 a week wages and have that money spent covering the wages of staff in order to get a higher grade manager.
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Mstrobez 10 Jun 21 9.44am | |
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Originally posted by Midlands Eagle
What on earth are you on about? You make a point. I effectively agree with you and then you say that I'm wrong. I said I find it bizarre that the sticking point would be the staff. You said it appears that it was the staff & Parish used the Athletic to confirm that. I said I doubt that's true and if it is, he's talking nonsense. If you read the Athletic article, they're claiming it was staff salaries which is more credible I guess. It still seems s slightly odd thing for the whole deal to collapse though unless Nuno was never really intending to join.
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Mstrobez 10 Jun 21 9.47am | |
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Originally posted by Mwncisee
Is it outlandish demands? Do we know that, or is it even hinted at? Granted we only have the media speculation to go on but I have seen no mention anywhere of any other reason than him wanting to bring his own staff and us not wanting to sack some of ours to make the room for them. If it's a question of wages then I'd certainly say not sign a mediocre player for £40,000 a week wages and have that money spent covering the wages of staff in order to get a higher grade manager. This has been claimed by many, yes. Although, tbf, the Athletic says the following: "Yet even at the start of June, with Freedman back from Lisbon, potential stumbling blocks were emerging. First was the overall cost of the package. Palace were comfortable with the wage demands put forward for Nuno himself, but he was insistent that he should be accompanied to south London by a significant entourage. The suggestion was he would bring in two first-team coaches, a goalkeeping coach, at least one fitness coach and others whose roles across sports science and medicine seemed less well defined. All would command significant salaries. All would threaten the roles of the staff currently in place. And all would potentially leave en masse with Nuno if, for whatever reason, things did not work out. And so began a drip-feed of unanticipated demands, caveats and “cake-and-eat-it clauses” put forward by Mendes, whether financial, contractual, logistical or over recruitment and staffing. The steady flow was now being delivered with the Everton job, which would mean working with a squad clearly better placed to compete for European qualification than Palace are, also up for grabs. It is unclear just how enthusiastic the Merseyside club have ever been about recruiting Nuno, but talks of some kind are understood to have taken place and there was clearly a level of interest in the Portuguese’s camp over the prospect of working at Goodison Park. That complicated matters with Palace, not least because it further delayed the process. Why would Nuno commit to Palace if he thought there was even a slim chance Everton might eventually make him an offer? With that seed sown in the former Wolves head coach’s head, Palace suddenly found themselves in limbo for over a week with their control over the process undermined, fretting that they were merely being used as a means of leveraging a deal from Everton. All the while, the clock was ticking down on the contracts of 11 first-team players at Selhurst Park — the group had been told collectively that no final decision would be made on renewals until a new manager was in place — and with the formal re-opening of the transfer window edging ever closer. Nuno became elusive. It was increasingly impossible to secure a firm answer, or commitment, with the landscape forever shifting. Patience began to wear thin. Even so, just yesterday, there was one final spasm of confidence that a deal could still be struck. Perhaps Nuno’s camp had resigned themselves to the reality that an offer was unlikely to be forthcoming from Everton, but there was a period on Tuesday evening when the noises were more positive again. Palace, having made clear their previous frustrations, imposed a deadline — they had grown tired of waiting and needed a firm commitment — but believed it would be met. Word crept out that, as far as they were concerned, agreement had been reached in principle and the search for Hodgson’s successor was effectively over. Except that proved premature. Even through last night, the demands kept coming and, eventually, enough was enough. The club pulled the plug in the small hours of this morning. The constant procrastination at Nuno’s end had raised their hackles, hardly representing the positive start to what was supposed to be a productive relationship, and the demands imposed by a manager whose team had finished one point and one place above Hodgson’s Palace in the table last season felt increasingly out of touch. The whole process had descended into something of a circus."
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Mwncisee Middlesbrough 10 Jun 21 10.01am | |
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So we don't know the demands were `outlandish` because we are not told (unsurprisingly) what they actually were. We are told they are outlandish from Steve's point of view but of course he would say they are even if they were not to save face and appease the fanbase who were excited at the prospect. Like I have said in another post it will be very interesting to see what happens if Everton appoint someone other than Nuno (Benitez). What is interesting is there are similarities between what has happened to us and what happened with Celtic and Howe this season. There seems to be an increasing breed of managers who are becoming more bolshie in their demands. You could argue that with clubs being quicker to sack managers they are reacting with needing more in place for them to succeed right from the get go. After the way Howe treated Palace (making an agreement and the next day going to Burnley) and what he has done to Celtic this year I wonder if these managers are starting to give off a poor image of themselves which may be self defeating for them. Originally posted by Mstrobez
This has been claimed by many, yes. Although, tbf, the Athletic says the following: "Yet even at the start of June, with Freedman back from Lisbon, potential stumbling blocks were emerging. First was the overall cost of the package. Palace were comfortable with the wage demands put forward for Nuno himself, but he was insistent that he should be accompanied to south London by a significant entourage. The suggestion was he would bring in two first-team coaches, a goalkeeping coach, at least one fitness coach and others whose roles across sports science and medicine seemed less well defined. All would command significant salaries. All would threaten the roles of the staff currently in place. And all would potentially leave en masse with Nuno if, for whatever reason, things did not work out. And so began a drip-feed of unanticipated demands, caveats and “cake-and-eat-it clauses” put forward by Mendes, whether financial, contractual, logistical or over recruitment and staffing. The steady flow was now being delivered with the Everton job, which would mean working with a squad clearly better placed to compete for European qualification than Palace are, also up for grabs. It is unclear just how enthusiastic the Merseyside club have ever been about recruiting Nuno, but talks of some kind are understood to have taken place and there was clearly a level of interest in the Portuguese’s camp over the prospect of working at Goodison Park. That complicated matters with Palace, not least because it further delayed the process. Why would Nuno commit to Palace if he thought there was even a slim chance Everton might eventually make him an offer? With that seed sown in the former Wolves head coach’s head, Palace suddenly found themselves in limbo for over a week with their control over the process undermined, fretting that they were merely being used as a means of leveraging a deal from Everton. All the while, the clock was ticking down on the contracts of 11 first-team players at Selhurst Park — the group had been told collectively that no final decision would be made on renewals until a new manager was in place — and with the formal re-opening of the transfer window edging ever closer. Nuno became elusive. It was increasingly impossible to secure a firm answer, or commitment, with the landscape forever shifting. Patience began to wear thin. Even so, just yesterday, there was one final spasm of confidence that a deal could still be struck. Perhaps Nuno’s camp had resigned themselves to the reality that an offer was unlikely to be forthcoming from Everton, but there was a period on Tuesday evening when the noises were more positive again. Palace, having made clear their previous frustrations, imposed a deadline — they had grown tired of waiting and needed a firm commitment — but believed it would be met. Word crept out that, as far as they were concerned, agreement had been reached in principle and the search for Hodgson’s successor was effectively over. Except that proved premature. Even through last night, the demands kept coming and, eventually, enough was enough. The club pulled the plug in the small hours of this morning. The constant procrastination at Nuno’s end had raised their hackles, hardly representing the positive start to what was supposed to be a productive relationship, and the demands imposed by a manager whose team had finished one point and one place above Hodgson’s Palace in the table last season felt increasingly out of touch. The whole process had descended into something of a circus."
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Palace Passion Bromley, South London 10 Jun 21 10.22am | |
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I actually want Dougie Freedman as manager now. He knows us let's give him another chance he had learnt from his mistakes he could be incredible for us....
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taylors lovechild 10 Jun 21 10.22am | |
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With Chelsea supposedly ready to throw some players over board including Abraham, it may not be such a bad thing to get Lampard on board. Say in theory we signed Hudson-Odoi and Abraham and got Gallagher or Gilmour on loan. Even if he isn't the best coach we'd probably have a team capable of getting results. Also, his status means he'd command the respect of most of the squad I would imagine. I don't think it would be boring under Lampard.
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SurbsEagle 10 Jun 21 10.26am | |
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Originally posted by Mwncisee
So we don't know the demands were `outlandish` because we are not told (unsurprisingly) what they actually were. We are told they are outlandish from Steve's point of view but of course he would say they are even if they were not to save face and appease the fanbase who were excited at the prospect. Like I have said in another post it will be very interesting to see what happens if Everton appoint someone other than Nuno (Benitez). What is interesting is there are similarities between what has happened to us and what happened with Celtic and Howe this season. There seems to be an increasing breed of managers who are becoming more bolshie in their demands. You could argue that with clubs being quicker to sack managers they are reacting with needing more in place for them to succeed right from the get go. After the way Howe treated Palace (making an agreement and the next day going to Burnley) and what he has done to Celtic this year I wonder if these managers are starting to give off a poor image of themselves which may be self defeating for them. Problem is, there will always be some dope in China who will pay millions for these guys to manage their tinpot club for 6 months
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Mwncisee Middlesbrough 10 Jun 21 10.35am | |
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Sad but true. Do think it may be one of those massive `what if` moments we look back on in a few years if Nuno is not installed as Everton or palace manager. On a side note to answer my own question about Ismael. A bit of Googling and I found this. Having read it I could see a fair number of the current squad (Tekkers, Luka, Wilf and Eze) flourishing in his style. Although we would need to get some wingbacks. Maybe Schlupp at wingback and/or convince PVA to stay. Originally posted by SurbsEagle
Problem is, there will always be some dope in China who will pay millions for these guys to manage their tinpot club for 6 months
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Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 10 Jun 21 10.45am | |
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At Wolves, NES worked alongside an Assistant Head coach, 2 1st team coaches,an Assistant 1st team coach,a fitness coach and a goalkeeper coach,all bar 1 being from his homeland.'Team Nuno' !
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Ginger Pubic Wig Wickham de L'Ouest 10 Jun 21 10.50am | |
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Mstrobez, I don't think it's right to have cut and pasted copyrighted quality journalism from The Athletic onto here. It's a small outfit doing great work in a punishing media landscape. By all means talk in broad terms, but don't give people the whole meat of it verbatim.
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silvertop Portishead 10 Jun 21 11.17am | |
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Originally posted by Ginger Pubic Wig
Mstrobez, I don't think it's right to have cut and pasted copyrighted quality journalism from The Athletic onto here. It's a small outfit doing great work in a punishing media landscape. By all means talk in broad terms, but don't give people the whole meat of it verbatim. I hadn't seen that article and found it very interesting. Pulling out appears wholly vindicated if accurate. Mendes perhaps being the issue here, rather than NES. Not only asking too much, and the risk of NES walking out with all the senior backroom staff, but the club may have feared Mendes external control without any corporate responsibility. [Obvs, for a legal perspective, copy pasting cannot be encouraged!]
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jeeagles 10 Jun 21 11.18am | |
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Originally posted by Mstrobez
This has been claimed by many, yes. Although, tbf, the Athletic says the following: "Yet even at the start of June, with Freedman back from Lisbon, potential stumbling blocks were emerging. First was the overall cost of the package. Palace were comfortable with the wage demands put forward for Nuno himself, but he was insistent that he should be accompanied to south London by a significant entourage. The suggestion was he would bring in two first-team coaches, a goalkeeping coach, at least one fitness coach and others whose roles across sports science and medicine seemed less well defined. All would command significant salaries. All would threaten the roles of the staff currently in place. And all would potentially leave en masse with Nuno if, for whatever reason, things did not work out. And so began a drip-feed of unanticipated demands, caveats and “cake-and-eat-it clauses” put forward by Mendes, whether financial, contractual, logistical or over recruitment and staffing. The steady flow was now being delivered with the Everton job, which would mean working with a squad clearly better placed to compete for European qualification than Palace are, also up for grabs. It is unclear just how enthusiastic the Merseyside club have ever been about recruiting Nuno, but talks of some kind are understood to have taken place and there was clearly a level of interest in the Portuguese’s camp over the prospect of working at Goodison Park. That complicated matters with Palace, not least because it further delayed the process. Why would Nuno commit to Palace if he thought there was even a slim chance Everton might eventually make him an offer? With that seed sown in the former Wolves head coach’s head, Palace suddenly found themselves in limbo for over a week with their control over the process undermined, fretting that they were merely being used as a means of leveraging a deal from Everton. All the while, the clock was ticking down on the contracts of 11 first-team players at Selhurst Park — the group had been told collectively that no final decision would be made on renewals until a new manager was in place — and with the formal re-opening of the transfer window edging ever closer. Nuno became elusive. It was increasingly impossible to secure a firm answer, or commitment, with the landscape forever shifting. Patience began to wear thin. Even so, just yesterday, there was one final spasm of confidence that a deal could still be struck. Perhaps Nuno’s camp had resigned themselves to the reality that an offer was unlikely to be forthcoming from Everton, but there was a period on Tuesday evening when the noises were more positive again. Palace, having made clear their previous frustrations, imposed a deadline — they had grown tired of waiting and needed a firm commitment — but believed it would be met. Word crept out that, as far as they were concerned, agreement had been reached in principle and the search for Hodgson’s successor was effectively over. Except that proved premature. Even through last night, the demands kept coming and, eventually, enough was enough. The club pulled the plug in the small hours of this morning. The constant procrastination at Nuno’s end had raised their hackles, hardly representing the positive start to what was supposed to be a productive relationship, and the demands imposed by a manager whose team had finished one point and one place above Hodgson’s Palace in the table last season felt increasingly out of touch. The whole process had descended into something of a circus." It's great to see someone wanting to take charge of every aspect of the team, but keep, retaining, or restoring a good culture is important and we can't just kick out the incumbents for Nuno's own men. We want someone who's single minded, demanding, and uncompromising (to an extent) - but Nuno seems to have got the balance wrong here. Definitely along the right lines, but not quite right.
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