You are here: Home > Message Board > News & Politics > Topic
November 26 2024 9.25am

This page is no longer updated, and is the old forum. For new topics visit the New HOL forum.

ukip (LOCKED)

Previous Topic | Next Topic


Page 170 of 311 < 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 >

Topic Locked

Stirlingsays Flag 07 Feb 15 9.05pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Quote nickgusset at 07 Feb 2015 8.59pm

Tackling homophobic abuse in schools is disgraceful...

[Link]


Well, he's saying primary schools.

I don't know about having specific lessons about it at that age but I do agree that it's every teacher's duty to discourage the 'that's gay' language you find amongst pupils.

I don't let it stand myself and I remember being shocked during my PGCE to hear a seemingly popular PGCE trainee teacher using the language himself.

 

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post
nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 07 Feb 15 9.22pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 07 Feb 2015 9.05pm

Quote nickgusset at 07 Feb 2015 8.59pm

Tackling homophobic abuse in schools is disgraceful...

[Link]


Well, he's saying primary schools.

I don't know about having specific lessons about it at that age but I do agree that it's every teacher's duty to discourage the 'that's gay' language you find amongst pupils.

I don't let it stand myself and I remember being shocked during my PGCE to hear a seemingly popular PGCE trainee teacher using the language himself.

But this is the deputy leader of your party. Brush the homophobia under the carpet (along with the mild racism as) even though it's against what you stand for, as long as they're anti eu.


Edited by nickgusset (07 Feb 2015 9.24pm)

 
Alert Alert a moderator to this post
Stirlingsays Flag 07 Feb 15 9.36pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Quote nickgusset at 07 Feb 2015 9.22pm

But this is the deputy leader of your party. Brush the homophobia under the carpet (along with the mild racism as) even though it's against what you stand for, as long as they're anti eu.


Edited by nickgusset (07 Feb 2015 9.24pm)


He appears to be against the lessons in primary school.

He's probably right about that...Lessons on that are probably too much at that stage......Instead teachers should be monitoring language as they hear it.

I don't accept that he's being homophobic here to say what he has...I don't think it's balanced to assume he is.

As for another racism accusation.....What on earth is 'mild racism' anyway?......You really shouldn't chuck that about without evidence.

I'll state again, UKIP membership is open to all groups and has non British supporters both home and aboard and has fielded candidates that real racist parties wouldn't field.


Edited by Stirlingsays (07 Feb 2015 9.38pm)

 

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post
nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 07 Feb 15 9.47pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 07 Feb 2015 9.36pm

Quote nickgusset at 07 Feb 2015 9.22pm

But this is the deputy leader of your party. Brush the homophobia under the carpet (along with the mild racism as) even though it's against what you stand for, as long as they're anti eu.


Edited by nickgusset (07 Feb 2015 9.24pm)


He appears to be against the lessons in primary school.

He's probably right about that...Lessons on that are probably too much at that stage......Instead teachers should be monitoring language as they hear it.

I don't accept that he's being homophobic here to say what he has...I don't think it's balanced to assume he is.

As for another racism accusation.....What on earth is 'mild racism' anyway?......You really shouldn't chuck that about without evidence.

I'll state again, UKIP membership is open to all groups and has non British supporters both home and aboard and has fielded candidates that real racist parties wouldn't field.


Edited by Stirlingsays (07 Feb 2015 9.38pm)

So he's against lessons that say homophobic behaviour is bad?

 
Alert Alert a moderator to this post
Stirlingsays Flag 07 Feb 15 10.10pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Quote nickgusset at 07 Feb 2015 9.47pm


So he's against lessons that say homophobic behaviour is bad?

Mmmmm.....In my view the encouragement of positive social engineering concepts should be age appropriate.

Attitudes in families may not be what you would wish for.....I'm not sure that teachers should be dictating how a child should think at all stages.....I would have some sympathy for a family who would object to that at this age.

Little children shouldn't be worrying about sex related themes.....This is for secondary school.

What teachers should do is protect all children and monitor and steer behaviour....It doesn't need to be explicit to be effective.

If a particular child is exhibiting anti social behaviour such as homophobia.....Then that's another matter for a specific case.


Edited by Stirlingsays (07 Feb 2015 10.11pm)

 

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post
nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 07 Feb 15 10.12pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 07 Feb 2015 10.10pm

Quote nickgusset at 07 Feb 2015 9.47pm


So he's against lessons that say homophobic behaviour is bad?

Mmmmm.....In my view the encouragement of positive social engineering concepts should be age appropriate.

Attitudes in families may not be what you would wish for.....I'm not sure that teachers should be dictating how a child should think at all stages.....I would have some sympathy for a family who would object to that at this age.

Little children shouldn't be worrying about sex related themes.....This is for secondary school.

What teachers should do is protect all children and monitor and steer behaviour....It doesn't need to be explicit to be effective.

If a particular child is exhibiting anti social behaviour such as homophobia.....Then that's another matter for a specific case.


Edited by Stirlingsays (07 Feb 2015 10.11pm)

Agreed , but this UKIP chap doesn't think we should.

 
Alert Alert a moderator to this post
nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 07 Feb 15 10.14pm

Ukip are urging "expat" Brits living abroad to do their bit, by registering to vote online, and to support their anti-immigrant agenda on May 7th.

Fair enough to canvass votes however does this not smack a little of hypocrisy?

It seems that if your British, and working or living abroad in places like Spain, Germany and Poland, or indeed anywhere else, you're not an immigrant to those countries, but have some special status as an "expat" and well, that's not quite the same is it, and perfectly okay for us Brits to be doing.

There are as many British people living in other EU nations as EU nationals living in the UK - if Ukip got its way and kicked all EU migrants out, then that might result in the UK having to take all these non-immigrant British expats back in, i.e. even if it were not entirely motivated by racism, xenophobia, scapegoating and bigotry, is hardly a well-thought-out solution to the housing, school or jobs shortage or indeed congestion on our roads.

10425510_333248376869093_2893382693459829261_n.png Attachment: 10425510_333248376869093_2893382693459829261_n.png (418.35Kb)

 
Alert Alert a moderator to this post
Johnny Eagles Flag berlin 08 Feb 15 10.05am Send a Private Message to Johnny Eagles Add Johnny Eagles as a friend

Quote nickgusset at 07 Feb 2015 10.14pm

Ukip are urging "expat" Brits living abroad to do their bit, by registering to vote online, and to support their anti-immigrant agenda on May 7th.

Fair enough to canvass votes however does this not smack a little of hypocrisy?

It seems that if your British, and working or living abroad in places like Spain, Germany and Poland, or indeed anywhere else, you're not an immigrant to those countries, but have some special status as an "expat" and well, that's not quite the same is it, and perfectly okay for us Brits to be doing.


There are as many British people living in other EU nations as EU nationals living in the UK - if Ukip got its way and kicked all EU migrants out, then that might result in the UK having to take all these non-immigrant British expats back in, i.e. even if it were not entirely motivated by racism, xenophobia, scapegoating and bigotry, is hardly a well-thought-out solution to the housing, school or jobs shortage or indeed congestion on our roads.


It's complete nonsense to suggest that British people living in other EU countries would be kicked out. I think UKIP has said that they wouldn't kick anyone out who came to the UK legally. So the above is really just a lazy slur.

While I think immigrant-bashing is also short-sighted and wrong I do think Britain should control its borders and be able to say how many people from poorer countries like Lithuania, Bulgaria or Romania it lets in. Which other party could I vote for if I think leaving the EU would be good and important for Britain?

 

...we must expand...get more pupils...so that the knowledge will spread...
Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post
Tom-the-eagle Flag Croydon 08 Feb 15 10.37am

Quote Johnny Eagles at 08 Feb 2015 10.05am

Quote nickgusset at 07 Feb 2015 10.14pm

Ukip are urging "expat" Brits living abroad to do their bit, by registering to vote online, and to support their anti-immigrant agenda on May 7th.

Fair enough to canvass votes however does this not smack a little of hypocrisy?

It seems that if your British, and working or living abroad in places like Spain, Germany and Poland, or indeed anywhere else, you're not an immigrant to those countries, but have some special status as an "expat" and well, that's not quite the same is it, and perfectly okay for us Brits to be doing.


There are as many British people living in other EU nations as EU nationals living in the UK - if Ukip got its way and kicked all EU migrants out, then that might result in the UK having to take all these non-immigrant British expats back in, i.e. even if it were not entirely motivated by racism, xenophobia, scapegoating and bigotry, is hardly a well-thought-out solution to the housing, school or jobs shortage or indeed congestion on our roads.


It's complete nonsense to suggest that British people living in other EU countries would be kicked out. I think UKIP has said that they wouldn't kick anyone out who came to the UK legally. So the above is really just a lazy slur.

While I think immigrant-bashing is also short-sighted and wrong I do think Britain should control its borders and be able to say how many people from poorer countries like Lithuania, Bulgaria or Romania it lets in. Which other party could I vote for if I think leaving the EU would be good and important for Britain?


In my opinion, the real problem is what has happened since 2004. Up until that point most people did not really mind or care too much about being in the EU. When the EU was formed it consisted of predominately richer western European countries. Whilst the EU citizens from these countries where allowed to reside in the UK not that many did as they were generally from reasonably affluent countries themselves and did not feel the need to leave their homelands in such numbers. In turn these relationships also offered our own people a choice that we could now live in Spain, France, Germany, Italy etc. which appealed to many, however since the expansion of the EU over the last decade, this country has been flooded with people from the poorer countries to the detriment of Britain. Now while it may have been appealing for Brits to have settled in Spain or France etc., there is no appeal or benefit whatsoever for us to move to Romania, Lithuania or Poland and get a job earning £300pcm. The benefits of these relationships are entirely one way.

Now I have nothing against people from Eastern Europe on an individual basis as they are just wanting to better their own lives, however the relationship and benefits which Britain and the British people have with these recent EU entrants is entirely one way.
I believe it is imperative that Britain leave the EU ASAP in order to retain our own standard of living and British way of life. Trade agreements can still be kept so there need be no damage to the economy, however it is entirely unworkable to manage a country (schools/health services /housing etc.) when you have absolutely no control whatsoever about the numbers of population.
UKip are the only party who have addressed this and for that they will get my vote.

 

"It feels much better than it ever did, much more sensitive." John Wayne Bobbit
Alert Alert a moderator to this post
legaleagle Flag 08 Feb 15 11.16am

Quote davenotamonkey at 07 Feb 2015 7.03pm

Quote legaleagle at 07 Feb 2015 5.55pm

Clearly I have hit a raw nerve. I did not use the word "racist" anywhere in my post.As for "ethnicity",purely as an example, no significant racial differences between many English and, say, many Polish people,but differing "ethnicity".You are a courteous and non-abusive poster and I respect you for that.I won't respond to anything else you post this evening so as not to annoy you further.Have a good evening,Stirling.

Edited by legaleagle (07 Feb 2015 6.10pm)

You didn't have to. You insinuated it. It is has become the defacto response to any issue taken with the level of immigration the UK has had forced upon it: "you're waaacist".


Just to clarify (and if you disagree with me,no problem):

1. My posts were in response to and about one poster and my perception (rightly or wrongly and ill-judged or not ill-judged)based on the past 1-2 years on general talk as opposed just to posts yesterday.

2. There is a difference between querying someone on grounds of implying they are a racist (discriminating on the basis of race) and being averse to differing "ethnicity",ie culture/traditions/customs,language,dialect,history etc. As two further examples which are nothing to do with immigration to the UK and just to illustrate the difference between "racism" and being averse to differing ethnicity: Former Yugoslavia, arguably big differences between Croats and Serbs in terms of ethnicity but none in terms of race.So,if a Croat (as a purely theoretical example)is averse to significant numbers of Serbs living in Croatia,its not "racism" but it may well be because they are adverse to differing ethnicity.Same re "ethnic Ukrainians" and "ethnic Russians" in Ukraine.

3.Nowhere did I suggest or do I suggest that anyone who queries membership of the EU or raises the topic of immigration in a UKIP context is stereotypically therefore automatically in every case a "racist" or must be averse to EU freedom of movement on grounds of differing "ethnicity".

Edited by legaleagle (08 Feb 2015 11.57am)

 
Alert Alert a moderator to this post
legaleagle Flag 08 Feb 15 11.36am

Quote Tom-the-eagle at 08 Feb 2015 10.37am

Quote Johnny Eagles at 08 Feb 2015 10.05am

Quote nickgusset at 07 Feb 2015 10.14pm

Ukip are urging "expat" Brits living abroad to do their bit, by registering to vote online, and to support their anti-immigrant agenda on May 7th.

Fair enough to canvass votes however does this not smack a little of hypocrisy?

It seems that if your British, and working or living abroad in places like Spain, Germany and Poland, or indeed anywhere else, you're not an immigrant to those countries, but have some special status as an "expat" and well, that's not quite the same is it, and perfectly okay for us Brits to be doing.


There are as many British people living in other EU nations as EU nationals living in the UK - if Ukip got its way and kicked all EU migrants out, then that might result in the UK having to take all these non-immigrant British expats back in, i.e. even if it were not entirely motivated by racism, xenophobia, scapegoating and bigotry, is hardly a well-thought-out solution to the housing, school or jobs shortage or indeed congestion on our roads.


It's complete nonsense to suggest that British people living in other EU countries would be kicked out. I think UKIP has said that they wouldn't kick anyone out who came to the UK legally. So the above is really just a lazy slur.

While I think immigrant-bashing is also short-sighted and wrong I do think Britain should control its borders and be able to say how many people from poorer countries like Lithuania, Bulgaria or Romania it lets in. Which other party could I vote for if I think leaving the EU would be good and important for Britain?


In my opinion, the real problem is what has happened since 2004. Up until that point most people did not really mind or care too much about being in the EU. When the EU was formed it consisted of predominately richer western European countries. Whilst the EU citizens from these countries where allowed to reside in the UK not that many did as they were generally from reasonably affluent countries themselves and did not feel the need to leave their homelands in such numbers. In turn these relationships also offered our own people a choice that we could now live in Spain, France, Germany, Italy etc. which appealed to many, however since the expansion of the EU over the last decade, this country has been flooded with people from the poorer countries to the detriment of Britain. Now while it may have been appealing for Brits to have settled in Spain or France etc., there is no appeal or benefit whatsoever for us to move to Romania, Lithuania or Poland and get a job earning £300pcm. The benefits of these relationships are entirely one way.

Now I have nothing against people from Eastern Europe on an individual basis as they are just wanting to better their own lives, however the relationship and benefits which Britain and the British people have with these recent EU entrants is entirely one way.
I believe it is imperative that Britain leave the EU ASAP in order to retain our own standard of living and British way of life. Trade agreements can still be kept so there need be no damage to the economy, however it is entirely unworkable to manage a country (schools/health services /housing etc.) when you have absolutely no control whatsoever about the numbers of population.
UKip are the only party who have addressed this and for that they will get my vote.


There's a legitimate debate to be had about that,since some would say the benefits have not been only "entirely one way":

[Link]

Edited by legaleagle (08 Feb 2015 11.38am)

 
Alert Alert a moderator to this post
Stirlingsays Flag 08 Feb 15 6.32pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Quote legaleagle at 08 Feb 2015 11.16am

Just to clarify (and if you disagree with me,no problem):

1. My posts were in response to and about one poster and my perception (rightly or wrongly and ill-judged or not ill-judged)based on the past 1-2 years on general talk as opposed just to posts yesterday.

2. There is a difference between querying someone on grounds of implying they are a racist (discriminating on the basis of race) and being averse to differing "ethnicity",ie culture/traditions/customs,language,dialect,history etc. As two further examples which are nothing to do with immigration to the UK and just to illustrate the difference between "racism" and being averse to differing ethnicity: Former Yugoslavia, arguably big differences between Croats and Serbs in terms of ethnicity but none in terms of race.So,if a Croat (as a purely theoretical example)is averse to significant numbers of Serbs living in Croatia,its not "racism" but it may well be because they are adverse to differing ethnicity.Same re "ethnic Ukrainians" and "ethnic Russians" in Ukraine.

3.Nowhere did I suggest or do I suggest that anyone who queries membership of the EU or raises the topic of immigration in a UKIP context is stereotypically therefore automatically in every case a "racist" or must be averse to EU freedom of movement on grounds of differing "ethnicity".

Edited by legaleagle (08 Feb 2015 11.57am)


You were out of order....It wasn't fair.

Forgive me if I'm getting this wrong but you seem to still be suggesting here that, in your opinion, I'm a racist. Can we clarify this? because I regard this as quite important....I thought we had got past this.

Could you point to anything specific that can justify this accusation in any fair and balanced way?

Also I find your definition of racism is extremely board and wholly. You appear to have extended the meaning of racism straight into ethnocentrism.....Which is a typical position of many left wing people and leads to the situation where they can call most people in the world racist....It isn't a definition that everyone accepts...In fact you'd be in the minority...It ideological and poor language usage and an extremely blunt instrument.

Preference isn't racism pure and simple. Because I prefer something doesn't mean I believe that others are inferior. It means I prefer it....I might prefer long legged birds....I'd still shag the short legged one....There is no inferior or superior or blame aspect to an individual's genes.....I'm being silly here but it's indicative of how poor word usage can push categories onto people that aren't appropriate.

I prefer my culture (western/anglo saxon) to that of wildly different ones but that isn't to say that I hold any grudge against them. I would say I'm reasonably ethnocentric.....But I believe in treating everyone fairly with a recognition that we are all born equally.....But I don't believe that all cultures and traditions are of equal worth to the progression of humanity....IS culture isn't equal to humanism and living in the forest didn't put a man on the moon.

The meaning of racism by common consent is 'the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race'.....A belief that I most certainly don't hold....Your race is a genetic game of chance and many people's personalities are different even within the same family.....MLK's position of judging people upon the content of their character is a tenet I've always believed in....If I were back in that day I would have marched with him.

With your latest post on this you possibly seem to fall into the same group of people who use the possible 'legal' definition of a word to represent and override the meaning that most common sense people use.....For example the word 'assault' now is suitable for touching someone's shoulder regardless of force level......It's an insidious move to attempt to do this with the word, 'racism'. It labels and stains what are often quite innocent and normal thoughts and behaviours which you probably have yourself........Most honest people know it's BS.

I sir am not a racist.

 

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post

Topic Locked

Page 170 of 311 < 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 >

Previous Topic | Next Topic

You are here: Home > Message Board > News & Politics > Topic