The Stabbing of MP sir David Amess

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The Stabbing of MP sir David Amess

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cryrst The garden of England 18 Oct 21 7.01pm
Originally posted by BlueJay Actually I think it's perfectly fine to decide that radical individuals like Choudary and extreme groups like National Action - both on record as supporting murder - the latter of politicians (and both spreading the kind of ideas that are a causal factor in their deaths) are what people should be most concerned about. We should cauterise roads leading to these outcomes. So what's the score globally on deaths from Islamic terrorists and right wing terrorists. I think islamic might be leading by a few hundred thousand. There is still time for the right to catch up but only world war 3 would enable it! Edited by BlueJay (18 Oct 2021 3.19pm)
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cryrst

The garden of England 18 Oct 21 7.01pm

Originally posted by BlueJay

Actually I think it's perfectly fine to decide that radical individuals like Choudary and extreme groups like National Action - both on record as supporting murder - the latter of politicians (and both spreading the kind of ideas that are a causal factor in their deaths) are what people should be most concerned about. We should cauterise roads leading to these outcomes.

So what's the score globally on deaths from Islamic terrorists and right wing terrorists. I think islamic might be leading by a few hundred thousand. There is still time for the right to catch up but only world war 3 would enable it!

Edited by BlueJay (18 Oct 2021 3.19pm)

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Hrolf The Ganger 18 Oct 21 7.53pm
It's very simple. All the time you have an increasing number of religious devotees entering and breeding in this country, you have an ever-increasing chance of producing people who use irrational and fanatical reasons to do violence to their perceived enemies. Faith itself is totally irrational, and even within particular religions you have wide disagreement about how to interpret doctrine. Add to this the conflict with other religions, and in the case of Christianity, their association with Western culture and ambition, and you have the perfect storm brewing in this country with the inevitable consequences that have become a regular occurrence across Europe. Despite denial and fudge by politicians, commentators and assorted internet delusional, the problem is essentially about immigration. We let the wrong people in, and we have to do everything possible to limit the damage going forward. It's time to admit that we made a massive mistake and stop hiding behind excuses and fluffy, meaningless speeches. Anyone who lives their life based on devout religious beliefs is easily corruptible. Have the British rid themselves of their own suffocating, controlling, backward religious nonsense only to allow themselves to be cowed by a foreign one? Wake up everyone.
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Hrolf The Ganger

18 Oct 21 7.53pm

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It's very simple.

All the time you have an increasing number of religious devotees entering and breeding in this country, you have an ever-increasing chance of producing people who use irrational and fanatical reasons to do violence to their perceived enemies.

Faith itself is totally irrational, and even within particular religions you have wide disagreement about how to interpret doctrine. Add to this the conflict with other religions, and in the case of Christianity, their association with Western culture and ambition, and you have the perfect storm brewing in this country with the inevitable consequences that have become a regular occurrence across Europe.

Despite denial and fudge by politicians, commentators and assorted internet delusional, the problem is essentially about immigration. We let the wrong people in, and we have to do everything possible to limit the damage going forward. It's time to admit that we made a massive mistake and stop hiding behind excuses and fluffy, meaningless speeches.

Anyone who lives their life based on devout religious beliefs is easily corruptible. Have the British rid themselves of their own suffocating, controlling, backward religious nonsense only to allow themselves to be cowed by a foreign one?

Wake up everyone.

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BlueJay UK 18 Oct 21 8.00pm
Originally posted by cryrst So what's the score globally on deaths from Islamic terrorists and right wing terrorists. I think islamic might be leading by a few hundred thousand. There is still time for the right to catch up but only world war 3 would enable it! Resources should certainly be apportioned specifically where needed. There are no shortage of genuine terror threats in both categories though as our MPs can attest to. They have even received deaths threats 'since' this murder occurred. I have always been uncompromising in terms of a free Internet. Unfortunately more and more I'm seeing how much it can contort peoples beliefs and how easy it is to follow breadcrumb trails of harm set by individuals and algorithms. This reality, along with threats over social media, and the complex web of radicalisation is hopefully something that will be addressed in the new online harms bill. A sensible balance is needed. Points about a fragmented society and communities are perfectly valid too. For decades now many have wanted to turn off the tap of mass immigration, but the people had and, post brexit, still have no genuine say in that. Where people of other cultures and religions are plonked in specific areas and left to their own devices they can remain detached from society in a way that is unhealthy. Detachment from society certainly can and does happen to others too it's worth noting. The country is what is it though, so we have to operate with workable realities rather than wishlist. The vast majority of any group of people are sensible and just getting on with life, so its always important to keep that in mind too. Now time to watch the game.... We had better not get trounced. Edited by BlueJay (18 Oct 2021 8.19pm)
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BlueJay

UK 18 Oct 21 8.00pm

Originally posted by cryrst

Resources should certainly be apportioned specifically where needed. There are no shortage of genuine terror threats in both categories though as our MPs can attest to. They have even received deaths threats 'since' this murder occurred.

I have always been uncompromising in terms of a free Internet. Unfortunately more and more I'm seeing how much it can contort peoples beliefs and how easy it is to follow breadcrumb trails of harm set by individuals and algorithms. This reality, along with threats over social media, and the complex web of radicalisation is hopefully something that will be addressed in the new online harms bill. A sensible balance is needed.

Points about a fragmented society and communities are perfectly valid too. For decades now many have wanted to turn off the tap of mass immigration, but the people had and, post brexit, still have no genuine say in that. Where people of other cultures and religions are plonked in specific areas and left to their own devices they can remain detached from society in a way that is unhealthy. Detachment from society certainly can and does happen to others too it's worth noting. The country is what is it though, so we have to operate with workable realities rather than wishlist. The vast majority of any group of people are sensible and just getting on with life, so its always important to keep that in mind too.

Now time to watch the game.... We had better not get trounced.

Edited by BlueJay (18 Oct 2021 8.19pm)

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 18 Oct 21 10.37pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger As with a couple of others on here, you are not worth communicating with. You have nothing to offer except spin. You know full well why sectarianism began in Ireland and Scotland, and it was a perfect example of what happens when you mix groups that have reasons to resent each other and have ideological differences. Now I really don't want to waste any more time countering the endless spew of nonsense that you inflict on this site. I wouldn't miss you, but confidently predict I won't have to. So from the "sensible" perspective that you "inflict" on this site, you think separating groups who resent each other a preferable solution to seeking ways to co-exist? Maybe you want to see ethnic cleansing introduced in the UK. It's the logical final destination for your arguments. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 18 Oct 21 10.37pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

As with a couple of others on here, you are not worth communicating with. You have nothing to offer except spin.

You know full well why sectarianism began in Ireland and Scotland, and it was a perfect example of what happens when you mix groups that have reasons to resent each other and have ideological differences.

Now I really don't want to waste any more time countering the endless spew of nonsense that you inflict on this site.

I wouldn't miss you, but confidently predict I won't have to.

So from the "sensible" perspective that you "inflict" on this site, you think separating groups who resent each other a preferable solution to seeking ways to co-exist? Maybe you want to see ethnic cleansing introduced in the UK. It's the logical final destination for your arguments.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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PalazioVecchio south pole 18 Oct 21 10.44pm
The Fall of Rome was inextricably linked with religious factions, religious transition, religious politics. Western Rome 470 AD Eastern Rome 1453 Kayla did Anfield & Old Trafford
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PalazioVecchio

south pole 18 Oct 21 10.44pm

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The Fall of Rome was inextricably linked with religious factions, religious transition, religious politics.

Western Rome 470 AD

Eastern Rome 1453

Kayla did Anfield & Old Trafford

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 19 Oct 21 10.07am
Originally posted by PalazioVecchio The Fall of Rome was inextricably linked with religious factions, religious transition, religious politics. Western Rome 470 AD Eastern Rome 1453 Religion was then the only way they could make sense of life, death and everything in between. Most of us know, thanks to science, quite a lot more these days. Imparting that knowledge to those with their heads still in the dark ages is the challenge. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 19 Oct 21 10.07am

Originally posted by PalazioVecchio

The Fall of Rome was inextricably linked with religious factions, religious transition, religious politics.

Western Rome 470 AD

Eastern Rome 1453

Religion was then the only way they could make sense of life, death and everything in between.

Most of us know, thanks to science, quite a lot more these days. Imparting that knowledge to those with their heads still in the dark ages is the challenge.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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PalazioVecchio south pole 19 Oct 21 10.12am
The Stabber A Croydon Boy. ''A neighbour where Ali grew up described him as "a friendly kid who used to kick a ball around in the street". i wonder if he ever watched Palace play and cheered us on ? [Link] Kayla did Anfield & Old Trafford
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PalazioVecchio

south pole 19 Oct 21 10.12am

The Stabber

A Croydon Boy. ''A neighbour where Ali grew up described him as "a friendly kid who used to kick a ball around in the street".

i wonder if he ever watched Palace play and cheered us on ?

[Link]

Kayla did Anfield & Old Trafford

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Spiderman Horsham 19 Oct 21 11.01am
Originally posted by PalazioVecchio The Stabber A Croydon Boy. ''A neighbour where Ali grew up described him as "a friendly kid who used to kick a ball around in the street". i wonder if he ever watched Palace play and cheered us on ? [Link] Interesting that they have not named his University despite naming all his schools. Is there a possibility Uni is where he was radicalised and police are investigating?
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Spiderman

Horsham 19 Oct 21 11.01am

Originally posted by PalazioVecchio

The Stabber

A Croydon Boy. ''A neighbour where Ali grew up described him as "a friendly kid who used to kick a ball around in the street".

i wonder if he ever watched Palace play and cheered us on ?

[Link]

Interesting that they have not named his University despite naming all his schools. Is there a possibility Uni is where he was radicalised and police are investigating?

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HKOwen Hong Kong 19 Oct 21 11.52am
You have now suggested that this poster would be in favour of The Holocaust and ethnic cleansing. Whatever exact words you used that is the intention of your posts. Disagreement is one thing but that is a new level Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle I wouldn't miss you, but confidently predict I won't have to. So from the "sensible" perspective that you "inflict" on this site, you think separating groups who resent each other a preferable solution to seeking ways to co-exist? Maybe you want to see ethnic cleansing introduced in the UK. It's the logical final destination for your arguments. Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.
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HKOwen

Hong Kong 19 Oct 21 11.52am

You have now suggested that this poster would be in favour of The Holocaust and ethnic cleansing.

Whatever exact words you used that is the intention of your posts.

Disagreement is one thing but that is a new level

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I wouldn't miss you, but confidently predict I won't have to.

Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.

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Hrolf The Ganger 19 Oct 21 12.17pm
Originally posted by HKOwen You have now suggested that this poster would be in favour of The Holocaust and ethnic cleansing. Whatever exact words you used that is the intention of your posts. Disagreement is one thing but that is a new level Let him post that stuff. Let others see the kind of mentality that has helped wreck this country. He would rather spend his time fretting about the return of the Third Reich than face the real dangers threatening this country and its citizens right now. There really is no point arguing with irrational people. It is a waste of valuable time.
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Hrolf The Ganger

19 Oct 21 12.17pm

Originally posted by HKOwen

You have now suggested that this poster would be in favour of The Holocaust and ethnic cleansing.

Whatever exact words you used that is the intention of your posts.

Disagreement is one thing but that is a new level

Let him post that stuff. Let others see the kind of mentality that has helped wreck this country.
He would rather spend his time fretting about the return of the Third Reich than face the real dangers threatening this country and its citizens right now.

There really is no point arguing with irrational people. It is a waste of valuable time.

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BlueJay UK 19 Oct 21 3.50pm
Originally posted by HKOwen You have now suggested that this poster would be in favour of The Holocaust and ethnic cleansing. Whatever exact words you used that is the intention of your posts. Disagreement is one thing but that is a new level Yes this is fair. No matter a persons view, it's not a good idea to claim that they support ethnic cleansing and the like as clearly no-one here would ever do that. Stating a view on immigration or saying that religion can sometimes be co-opted or contorted in ways that damages society is a fair take. Realistically people can have whatever belief system they want - thats not going to change - but there is little denying that religion sits on a foundation of fantasy and fairytale.
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BlueJay

UK 19 Oct 21 3.50pm

Originally posted by HKOwen

You have now suggested that this poster would be in favour of The Holocaust and ethnic cleansing.

Whatever exact words you used that is the intention of your posts.

Disagreement is one thing but that is a new level

Yes this is fair. No matter a persons view, it's not a good idea to claim that they support ethnic cleansing and the like as clearly no-one here would ever do that.

Stating a view on immigration or saying that religion can sometimes be co-opted or contorted in ways that damages society is a fair take.

Realistically people can have whatever belief system they want - thats not going to change - but there is little denying that religion sits on a foundation of fantasy and fairytale.

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Stirlingsays 19 Oct 21 4.29pm
Originally posted by HKOwen You have now suggested that this poster would be in favour of The Holocaust and ethnic cleansing. Whatever exact words you used that is the intention of your posts. Disagreement is one thing but that is a new level Yep, it's plainly ridiculous. But ridiculous is the new normal. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

19 Oct 21 4.29pm