I get the arguments for English nationalism but I also don't really trust my instincts that are most fired up by it.

Always thought it was the Elephant in the room and the one that could cause the most potential, and unpredictable, damage. Because it has been subdued for so long that it has effectively been allowed to fester albeit in perhaps a way that is more sub-conscious than any clearly rationalised.

Never really bought into all this faux-patriotism that our Celtic neighbours like to onaistically indulge on with all their stupid skirts and ludicrous Guinness hats. I would hate for us English to go the same way but I suspect that English nationalism would burst out in a way that nobody could really foresee and might be a precursor to some real upheaval. It takes centuries before barbarism becomes diluted enough to make it a tourist attraction.

One of my big fears about Brexit not happening was that English nationalism would have then become the only conduit of protest for millions of people. That faith in the British Parliamentary system would have been so undermined that there could be no logical or reasoned argument to be made for acquiescing to the electoral process anymore. If our votes on June 23rd could be so easily discarded, why bother anymore?

Perhaps I am a little guilty of hyperbole over this and am transferring my own feelings of complete rage about anybody who wanted to nullify the result from June 2016 but I suspect not. Because our system of democracy would have been fatally undermined.

The reality is England tolerates the smaller parts of the UK. Accepts them as the price to be paid for our shared history. We all have friends and family and even origins from all parts of it. And to be fair, we are richer and enjoy a much higher quality of life (if Scotland leave then us remaining members of the UK live for years longer on average).

We even owe a duty of care to the Republic of Ireland because despite all their hot air, they need us to sell into. We have enough of a shared history to mean that they do need looking after.

As things stand I would urge people to curb their understandable desire for an England that stands solely on its own two feet. Let's get Brexit done and see how matters pan out.

Leave was a UK wide vote. And as such, we need to take a UK wide approach to how it is handled. We need to wipe our mouths and move on, no matter how justified our rage and anger is.

Edited by Matov (16 Dec 2019 11.20am)

By the way, part of my desire to leave the union is definitely based on seeing the faces of the SNP as we cut them adrift.

What an awful political party.

Labour lost because they have become a Marxist cult and are followed and represented by people of the "quality" of Owen Jones, David Lammmy, Ash Sarkar, numerous vacuous celebrities and all manor of people that live rarefied and privileged lives and are totally out of touch with the rest of society (as they almost never mix with working class people) . The British people also have a 6th sense for sniffing out extremists (and were continuously insulted and demonized by those people already mentioned).

Tories won because they were the only Brexit party and Boris appealed to people who still consider themselves patriotic (i.e. most)

Lib Fems failed because they sum up all that's wrong with the hyper liberal virtue signalling elite and equally out of touch as Labour.

Christ knows why the SNP did so well, I'm very disappointing in the jocks.

I would dissolve the union, as David Starkey pointed out recently it's been a case of 3 tails (Wales, Ireland and especially Scotland) wagging the dog for years as England is over 80% of the UK population and is the only country without it's own parliament yet is also the economic powerhouse. All of those countries are a drain on our economy and have far more socialist tendencies (although I have sympathy and solidarity with Irish unionists).

We need a revival of the English constitution with the concepts of individual rights, the rule of law, freedom of speech, freedom of association etc at the forefront of our thinking and education. These are the fundamentals that were key to creating the entire western modern world.

Most of all though we probably need a new youth counter culture of free thinking, facts and realism as our youth is currently lost to ideology.

Highlights of the election,

Smug Berkows look on his face , when he realised the result. His disgraceful behaviour as Speaker, helped put a nail Labours coffin.

The self proclaimed new PM Jo Swinson, when she lost her seat and was kicked out.

Labour still in denial, claiming their policies were popular.

Edited by Painter (16 Dec 2019 1.38pm)

Yet again you are posting your ideals as fact and as usual it's all Bollox.

People vote for a variety of different reasons whether that fits in with your ideals or not. A woman on Radio 5 this morning said that she voted Labour because she always had done and so had her family. Should I have telephoned in and told her that she was wrong as Wisbech Eagle said so?

There were also rumours a few years ago that many women voted Labour because their new leader was good looking and certainly many people were put off voting Conservative as they didn't like Theresa May.

Please stop posting your ideas and opinions as fact

Not for the first time you are either totally misunderstanding or misrepresenting my views. Just in case it's the first I will very patiently, politely and carefully explain them again, without the mindless abuse that so many here seem to favour.

Of course people often just vote for a party and might not even remember the name of the person they have chosen. They might decide to vote for a person simply because of their gender or looks. None of that is in dispute. It has nothing to do with my or anyone else's "ideals".

The fact remains that however a voter reaches their decision the result is that a representative of every constituency is returned whose job it is to represent ALL of the people in their constituency in Parliament and use their conscience to determine what is in their, and the country's, best interests.

If that were not true we may as well just return voting machines and save ourselves an awful lot of money.

We need the collective wisdom of all our MPs to be brought to bear on the issues of the day. Of course there needs to be some structure and organisation to ensure things move forward and constant gridlock is avoided. However, for issues of major constitutional or legal importance it ought to be mandatory that a free vote be taken in secret so that the true belief of the whole House is what determines whether a proposal passes or fails. Using the whip, the threat of it being withdrawn and subsequent deselection, in the way that was done prior to the election, is ultimately in no one's interest other than the party managers and strategists.