My credibility with people who think like you is unimportant. Fixed minds don't change but their set opinions can reveal the paucity of their arguments to others.

Ms Soubry's credibility will be judged when the dust settles and not before.

I don't deal in fantasy.I deal in the harsh reality of what is obvious to those with their eyes and ears open and looking outwards and forward and not inwards and back.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

You have certainly revealed your arguments and in turn had them exposed......Calling yourself a 'Traditional Tory Voter' and then calling yourself a 'Social Democrat' and talking positivity about feminism and multiculturalism and implying racism.....yeah real traditional Tory.

You are a fantasist in how you just deny answers and forge on regardless dancing on pins as you go.

Like you dancing around the fact that 7 out of 10 Tory seats voted out....trying to obfuscate by mudding what 'out' means.....yet if they had voted 'remain'....you wouldn't have stated ....well, what type of 'remain' were they saying?

I'm ok with you believing what you want, you're a minority view and your side lost.

That's about the extent of it.

In an earlier post you wrote, ' I strongly support the principle of meritocracy, which is only another way of saying that you support equality.'

Please explain this statement to me.

Meritocracy and equality are unrelated to each other and one has to be compromised in some fashion for the other to exist.

Edited by Stirlingsays (16 Feb 2019 5.06pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Remoaners who lost the vote and refuse to accept a democratic majority of 1.5 Million are a bit pathetic.

Why do you think that those who voted remain don't accept the vote? I do and I think most do. That though doesn't mean that you simply lie down and accept the consequences of something you believe to be a profound mistake. Referendums are not part of our democracy and I object to them being treated as decisive. That attitude would apply whatever the result. It was Parliament's commitment to respect it that I take issue with and want them to reverse. That's their job.

Meritocracy : Equality of opportunity.

it implies that the hardworking and talented get to keep the fruits of their labour.

It does no such thing. It simply says that merit and not anything is what governs an individual's opportunities. Who gets to profit from their success is another matter entirely.

it also implies that lazy losers will be allowed to fail and not given a ton of freebies for their lack of efforts.

No it doesn't. It says nothing about it.

This is a racially neutral policy.

Of course it is. Merit is blind to everything else.

Edited by Wisbech Eagle (16 Feb 2019 9.07pm)

Edited by Wisbech Eagle (16 Feb 2019 9.09pm)

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

It would probably be the same.

What remainers demanding a losers' vote fail to ask themselves is this:

"Would I change my vote?"

Why they expect anyone else to just defies logic. And as for the "you know which way you should've voted now" line.

Insulting people never brought anyone around to the cause...

What you fail to acknowledge, and might not truly realise, is that most people, even if that excludes you, now understand the complexities and implications much better than they did in 2016, whether they were then a Leaver or a Remainer.

More knowledge causes re-appraisals which leads to hindsight and a possible change of mind. Insults are not involved. Just statements of fact.

What the result would be is a matter of opinion. I know what mine is but if you are convinced that the country would still decide to leave why worry?

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.