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Stirlingsays 13 Nov 17 5.35am | |
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Originally posted by twist
But were any of these women in a position of power in that they could fire you or deny you a promotion etc if you didnt go with it ? What difference does that make? If a woman or man undergoes sexual harassment the power relationship is a detail not a deciding factor. Granted there are spurious claims.....that's whether there is a power dynamic or not. But the underlying principle isn't affected. Edited by Stirlingsays (13 Nov 2017 5.37am)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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jamiemartin721 Reading 13 Nov 17 10.47am | |
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Originally posted by twist
But were any of these women in a position of power in that they could fire you or deny you a promotion etc if you didnt go with it ? Actually the question is did you feel harassed or pressured into doing something you didn't want to do, or feel that it created a hostile working environment in which you were being sexually bullied. Power dynamics doesn't have to come into it. You can be sexually harassed as a boss, by your employees (in theory) and because you're dependent on their performance you accept it, or give into it.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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Forest Hillbilly in a hidey-hole 13 Nov 17 10.59am | |
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Originally posted by twist
But were any of these women in a position of power in that they could fire you or deny you a promotion etc if you didnt go with it ? Or if you could retrospectively hit the jackpot with a nice story about an encounter with a female, who subsequently made it to celebrity status, for the red-tops.
I disengage, I turn the page. |
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elgrande bedford 13 Nov 17 2.12pm | |
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Originally posted by Forest Hillbilly
Or if you could retrospectively hit the jackpot with a nice story about an encounter with a female, who subsequently made it to celebrity status, for the red-tops. I've got a mate who did that to the news of the world,he lived with some bird off of star trek..dunno who she was a greek bird(next generation i think).
always a Norwood boy, where ever I live. |
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elgrande bedford 13 Nov 17 2.15pm | |
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Just looked it up Marina sirtis....she was a sort when she was younger,I never knew pete then...but he was a right jack the lad...
always a Norwood boy, where ever I live. |
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Stirlingsays 13 Nov 17 2.40pm | |
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Twenty years ago I was once stuck in a lift for a couple of minutes with Sir David Owen....no sexual harassment, just awkward silence. I had the impression that he didn't have much time for us lower classes....which is odd considering his early politics.......though some might say that his hairstyle of that time constituted sexual harassment.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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jamiemartin721 Reading 13 Nov 17 4.03pm | |
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Originally posted by elgrande
Just looked it up Marina sirtis....she was a sort when she was younger,I never knew pete then...but he was a right jack the lad... Her scenes in 'The Wicked Lady' (the uncut version) are pretty racy. Gives a nice show of her assets.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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jamiemartin721 Reading 13 Nov 17 4.06pm | |
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Originally posted by Forest Hillbilly
Or if you could retrospectively hit the jackpot with a nice story about an encounter with a female, who subsequently made it to celebrity status, for the red-tops. They offered me a pint and a pack of chocolate fingers for my tale of Katrina from Daisy Chainsaw... Which is ironically, what how I got talking to her and what she got.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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Ray in Houston Houston 13 Nov 17 5.15pm | |
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Originally posted by Vaibow
i have been 'victim' to sexual harassment (todays standards) many times. i used to work at sea and was known for being a ladies man, one girl knocked on my door, drunk, let herself in when i didn't answer (it was unlocked as my room mate had not long got back in) she straddled me and was like - 'come on we know you love sex'. Other way around and o'd be out of a job and maybe doing time? Another example, a woman said she had a nipple ring, i was like, 'no way' trying to act like i cared - she flashed her boob. Another girl was flirty with me and i liked her back but never really went for it - was back in the cabin - had a knock on the door, opened - she said 'i just wanna try something' and kissed me. this is just a small example, but i wasn't offended in the slightest - i actually felt slightly pleased i was desirable. i think it boils down to male views and female views, i guess i never once felt over powered - that's probably the opposite for a lot for hess women. However, i have heard and seen cases where women laugh it off, or go for it. This whole band wagon of coming out with a story for click bait than actually y logging it with the police is what gets me.
Seems to me that you've missed the whole point of the issue. It's not about someone being flirty or even outrageously overt; it's about one person with actual or perceived power over another, using it to gain compliance. Read Louis CK's admission of guilt (because, weirdly and notably, it's not an an apology), where he summarises the dynamic perfectly: [Link] Quote
These stories are true. At the time, I said to myself that what I did was okay because I never showed a woman my dick without asking first, which is also true. But what I learned later in life, too late, is that when you have power over another person, asking them to look at your dick isn’t a question. It’s a predicament for them. The power I had over these women is that they admired me. And I wielded that power irresponsibly. I have been remorseful of my actions. And I’ve tried to learn from them. And run from them. Now I’m aware of the extent of the impact of my actions. I learned yesterday the extent to which I left these women who admired me feeling badly about themselves and cautious around other men who would never have put them in that position. I also took advantage of the fact that I was widely admired in my and their community, which disabled them from sharing their story and brought hardship to them when they tried because people who look up to me didn’t want to hear it. I didn’t think that I was doing any of that because my position allowed me not to think about it. Edited by Ray in Houston (13 Nov 2017 5.16pm)
We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football. |
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Ray in Houston Houston 13 Nov 17 5.37pm | |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
Unfortunately women are not necessarily honest and there is no reason for believing them the only test should be did it actually happen. What can happen if it is not provable, is that a man can have his life destroyed by malicious gossip and downright lies. It's not long since we saw a parade of women on American TV all claiming seriously that Donald Trump had interfered with them, they were quite serious types in their 40's not bimbos. Whatever happened to them, looks like the USA voters, men and women, did not believe them, correctly? With a woman, who knows? Why should women - as a gender - be less believable than men - as a gender? We are seeing this played out right now with the nomination of Roy Moore as the Republican candidate for the US Senate from Alabama. A very credible and well sourced article by the Washington Post accuses him of feeding alcohol to and then molesting a 14-year old girl. I say credible and well sourced because the accusation is supported by up to 30 independent sources who confirmed as much of the accusation as can be confirmed without actually having been in the room. And yet the deflection of the question as to whether Roy Moore ought to step down as a candidate for high national office is "well, if he did it, then he should step down." Really? IF? This is not a question of putting him in jail; the statute of limitations has long expired on these crimes, so the "if" of it will never be proven in a court of law. But we are not talking about Moore's liberty here, we're talking about whether he should be a US Senator. It's a character question, and his character is certainly questionable as a result of this credible accusation. The bottom line is, though, that up to 30 women have either made or corroborated this core accusation against Moore. But they're all lying, right? That one man - the one man in the crosshairs - is the only one telling the truth, right? Just how all the women who accused Weinstein, Cosby, Louis CK, Clinton and Trump were lying, right? But, Kevin Spacey was accused by men. Boom! Instant belief, no questions about it. If you don't see this pattern and don't see how it's part of the mechanism that allows this to happen, then you're part of the problem.
We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football. |
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Ray in Houston Houston 13 Nov 17 5.45pm | |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
What difference does that make? If a woman or man undergoes sexual harassment the power relationship is a detail not a deciding factor. Granted there are spurious claims.....that's whether there is a power dynamic or not. But the underlying principle isn't affected.
That's why whipping your dick out in the pub is just "being a lad" but whipping your dick out during an interview for a role in a movie is sexual harassment.
We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football. |
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Vaibow vancouver/croydon 13 Nov 17 8.24pm | |
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Originally posted by Ray in Houston
Edited by Ray in Houston (13 Nov 2017 5.16pm) As i said in my post, i didn't feel over powered - i can break that down for you - emotionally, professionally or physically. And that is my point - the moment you have no control, that to me is the deciding factor. A girl walks in to my cabin and jumps on me - i say no! what's the likely hood she walks out and says it was the other way round and i get the trouble? And for you to tell me, from my own experiences what constitutes sexual harassment - shame on you. I got unwanted sexual attention - harassment - by your definition, anyone can go kiss someone in the street. Now, don't get confused for one moment and think that i see myself as a victim - i don't. But i am highlighting how the exact same situation, for someone else, male or female, could lead to them feeling sexually harassed and i feel i am highlighting, in my opinion, the differences between the sexes. As someone said, what if she were susan boyle and had my job on the line - well, i will give you an example, an older man was my boss, he was married, but a closeted homosexual. He would hire young males and try his luck, it was an open secret. he tried it on with me, paid me more, gave me extra shifts, pinched my bum and flirted - i still felt in control and said no every time and laughed it off - i laughed as he was the mug paying me over time for no reason. Anyways, point is... this whole saga has gotten out of hand in the media.
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