Race hate crime in Croydon.

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Race hate crime in Croydon.

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jamiemartin721 Reading 05 Apr 17 4.27pm
Originally posted by hedgehog50 It is simply misleading and dangerous to publish statistics based on unsubstantiated reports from every Tom, Dick and Ali. You are the first to moan about anecdotal stories of black crime etc What I'm saying is that we shouldn't dismiss things out of hand. Obviously it needs further investigation and analysis. Political rhetoric isn't a reliable argument. The response should be 'to look deeper at the issue' and establish if there is a problem. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 05 Apr 17 4.27pm

Originally posted by hedgehog50

It is simply misleading and dangerous to publish statistics based on unsubstantiated reports from every Tom, Dick and Ali. You are the first to moan about anecdotal stories of black crime etc

What I'm saying is that we shouldn't dismiss things out of hand. Obviously it needs further investigation and analysis.

Political rhetoric isn't a reliable argument. The response should be 'to look deeper at the issue' and establish if there is a problem.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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jamiemartin721 Reading 05 Apr 17 4.30pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger And the reverse is equally true. First it was all Brexiters are Racists, now it's Brexit has caused a rise in attacks on foreigners. If you want to view things with an intellectual eye, you have to do it without prejudice. We can demonstrate all sorts of things with statistics and those who don't like what they say will reject them. We also have to question the source of that information what ever it says. The simple fact is that mass immigration causes friction. It always has and it always will. This is just the latest spin. Well no, because someone is offering a reasonable empirical source to suggest something might be the case. That doesn't prove an issue, but its more reliable than a statement that effectively is an argument of belief. Home Office statistics are generally fairly reliable starting points, and if anything are biased more towards keeping crime figures low. Why would the home office manipulate statistics to show a rise in crime of 40%? "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 05 Apr 17 4.30pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

And the reverse is equally true.

First it was all Brexiters are Racists, now it's Brexit has caused a rise in attacks on foreigners.

If you want to view things with an intellectual eye, you have to do it without prejudice.
We can demonstrate all sorts of things with statistics and those who don't like what they say will reject them. We also have to question the source of that information what ever it says.

The simple fact is that mass immigration causes friction. It always has and it always will. This is just the latest spin.

Well no, because someone is offering a reasonable empirical source to suggest something might be the case. That doesn't prove an issue, but its more reliable than a statement that effectively is an argument of belief.

Home Office statistics are generally fairly reliable starting points, and if anything are biased more towards keeping crime figures low. Why would the home office manipulate statistics to show a rise in crime of 40%?

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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hedgehog50 Croydon 05 Apr 17 4.34pm
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 What I'm saying is that we shouldn't dismiss things out of hand. Obviously it needs further investigation and analysis. Political rhetoric isn't a reliable argument. The response should be 'to look deeper at the issue' and establish if there is a problem. The point is surely, that statistics of a very dubious nature are presented as facts and used to promote anti-Brexit propaganda. Albeit, that even if the statistics were ture, it is nonsense to jump to the conclusion that it is due to Brexit. We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]
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hedgehog50

Croydon 05 Apr 17 4.34pm

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

What I'm saying is that we shouldn't dismiss things out of hand. Obviously it needs further investigation and analysis.

Political rhetoric isn't a reliable argument. The response should be 'to look deeper at the issue' and establish if there is a problem.

The point is surely, that statistics of a very dubious nature are presented as facts and used to promote anti-Brexit propaganda. Albeit, that even if the statistics were ture, it is nonsense to jump to the conclusion that it is due to Brexit.

We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 05 Apr 17 4.36pm
Originally posted by hedgehog50 The point is surely, that statistics of a very dubious nature are presented as facts and used to promote anti-Brexit propaganda. Albeit, that even if the statistics were ture, it is nonsense to jump to the conclusion that it is due to Brexit. Brexit is but a part of it.
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 05 Apr 17 4.36pm

Originally posted by hedgehog50

Brexit is but a part of it.

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jamiemartin721 Reading 05 Apr 17 4.40pm
Originally posted by hedgehog50 The point is surely, that statistics of a very dubious nature are presented as facts and used to promote anti-Brexit propaganda. Albeit, that even if the statistics were ture, it is nonsense to jump to the conclusion that it is due to Brexit. Police reports and Home Office aren't exactly dubious sources. I quite agree with the later. That said if the rise coincided with the referendum result, it would be reasonable to look at a correlation of events in that period that could result in a rise in racial crimes. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 05 Apr 17 4.40pm

Originally posted by hedgehog50

Police reports and Home Office aren't exactly dubious sources. I quite agree with the later. That said if the rise coincided with the referendum result, it would be reasonable to look at a correlation of events in that period that could result in a rise in racial crimes.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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hedgehog50 Croydon 05 Apr 17 4.47pm
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 Police reports and Home Office aren't exactly dubious sources. I quite agree with the later. That said if the rise coincided with the referendum result, it would be reasonable to look at a correlation of events in that period that could result in a rise in racial crimes. I'm not just going to drop this. Including every phone call or email reporting so called hate crimes in statistics is highly dubious. What is to stop any of the Remain propaganda machines to set up teams of emailers to bombard the police with false reports? We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]
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hedgehog50

Croydon 05 Apr 17 4.47pm

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

I'm not just going to drop this. Including every phone call or email reporting so called hate crimes in statistics is highly dubious. What is to stop any of the Remain propaganda machines to set up teams of emailers to bombard the police with false reports?

We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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elgrande bedford 05 Apr 17 4.51pm
Originally posted by hedgehog50 I'm not just going to drop this. Including every phone call or email reporting so called hate crimes in statistics is highly dubious. What is to stop any of the Remain propaganda machines to set up teams of emailers to bombard the police with false reports? And the fact they are not investigating these calls,they write down hate crime as soon as they get the call. It's politically motivated. always a Norwood boy, where ever I live.
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elgrande

bedford 05 Apr 17 4.51pm

Originally posted by hedgehog50

And the fact they are not investigating these calls,they write down hate crime as soon as they get the call.
It's politically motivated.

always a Norwood boy, where ever I live.

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 05 Apr 17 5.09pm
Originally posted by elgrande And the fact they are not investigating these calls,they write down hate crime as soon as they get the call. It's politically motivated. It could be said that you are playing down the hate crime statistics and their relationship / correlation to Brexit because you don't want to feel culpable in some way (although you aren't) as this is an unintended consequence of your vote to leave. Easy to spin the argument around.
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 05 Apr 17 5.09pm

Originally posted by elgrande

And the fact they are not investigating these calls,they write down hate crime as soon as they get the call.
It's politically motivated.

It could be said that you are playing down the hate crime statistics and their relationship / correlation to Brexit because you don't want to feel culpable in some way (although you aren't) as this is an unintended consequence of your vote to leave.

Easy to spin the argument around.

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Hrolf The Ganger 05 Apr 17 5.23pm
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 Well no, because someone is offering a reasonable empirical source to suggest something might be the case. That doesn't prove an issue, but its more reliable than a statement that effectively is an argument of belief. Home Office statistics are generally fairly reliable starting points, and if anything are biased more towards keeping crime figures low. Why would the home office manipulate statistics to show a rise in crime of 40%? I have observed that statistics are always far more 'reliable' and 'relevant' when they support ones own beliefs. We don't know how reliable the information is that the Home Office receives and even if there actually is a blip of race related violence following Brexit, how big a percentage of violent street crime does that really represent and what proportion of violent street crime is committed by White British people? Putting things into perspective is important.
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Hrolf The Ganger

05 Apr 17 5.23pm

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Originally posted by jamiemartin721

I have observed that statistics are always far more 'reliable' and 'relevant' when they support ones own beliefs.
We don't know how reliable the information is that the Home Office receives and even if there actually is a blip of race related violence following Brexit, how big a percentage of violent street crime does that really represent and what proportion of violent street crime is committed by White British people?

Putting things into perspective is important.

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Kermit8 Hevon 05 Apr 17 5.38pm
Any rise in 'hate' crimes here since Brexit will seem like a tambourine-infested Kumbaya picnic compared to what will be unleashed in France should the Far Right/Le Pen have their 'moment' and win the election. And it won't be just those of an Arabic hue that will be the recipients of their 'celebrations' Big chest and massive boobs [Link]
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Kermit8

Hevon 05 Apr 17 5.38pm

Any rise in 'hate' crimes here since Brexit will seem like a tambourine-infested Kumbaya picnic compared to what will be unleashed in France should the Far Right/Le Pen have their 'moment' and win the election.

And it won't be just those of an Arabic hue that will be the recipients of their 'celebrations'

Big chest and massive boobs

[Link]

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hedgehog50 Croydon 05 Apr 17 5.46pm
Originally posted by Kermit8 Any rise in 'hate' crimes here since Brexit will seem like a tambourine-infested Kumbaya picnic compared to what will be unleashed in France should the Far Right/Le Pen have their 'moment' and win the election. And it won't be just those of an Arabic hue that will be the recipients of their 'celebrations' The relative success of people like Le Pen is a result of the hapless policies of the liberal left leaders of the EU. Similar situation in places like Sweden. We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]
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hedgehog50

Croydon 05 Apr 17 5.46pm

Originally posted by Kermit8

And it won't be just those of an Arabic hue that will be the recipients of their 'celebrations'

The relative success of people like Le Pen is a result of the hapless policies of the liberal left leaders of the EU. Similar situation in places like Sweden.

We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 05 Apr 17 5.52pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger I have observed that statistics are always far more 'reliable' and 'relevant' when they support ones own beliefs. We don't know how reliable the information is that the Home Office receives and even if there actually is a blip of race related violence following Brexit, how big a percentage of violent street crime does that really represent and what proportion of violent street crime is committed by White British people? Putting things into perspective is important. Does this mean we can ignore the statistics about immigration as we don't know how reliable the information the home office receives is?
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 05 Apr 17 5.52pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Putting things into perspective is important.

Does this mean we can ignore the statistics about immigration as we don't know how reliable the information the home office receives is?

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