and to underline the point about disaffected youth in the West...the Provos in N Ireland grew up of the civil rights movement in N Ireland, which arose from disatisfaction from living for 50 years (within our very own UK) in a two tier society with a gerrymandered electoral system designed to minimise the effect of the Catholic vote(and no, I am not defending the Provos)

Incidentally jamie, Legal, have you seen the film Running on Empty? I think it's fascinating and related to the question of anti-Vietnam use of force in the US.
and...is it true that the weather men took their name from the Dylan line and you don't need a weatherman to see which way the wind blow?

Now Obama says he doesn't need a Congress vote to take military action in EEEEERak. That may be because of oil pipelines being at risk.

Errr, hang on, doesn't the UN have a say ? Obviously not. Anyone who disagees is a bender, and should be stoned to death. (obviously in the physical sense and not an overdose of cannabis, coz that would be 'wrong')

Edited by Forest Hillbilly (19 Jun 2014 10.41am)

I disengage, I turn the page.

Yes, its from 'Subterranian Home Sick Blues', arguably one of Dylans better moments. Although they took the name from the Revolutionary Youth Movement publication 'You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows' (which is a line from Subterranian Home Sick Blues), rather than directly from the song - which formed the basis of a clandestine underground revolutionary movement.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

The shooting of Rudi Dutschke was the final straw. State suppression of protestors against the regime in Iran and Vietnam war was massively unpopular, and the unwavering support of the US military, created a massive problem - The youth of Germany saw in that a potential repeat of the late 20s early 30s, and with ex-Nazi's remaining in positions of influence, there was a lot of paranoia. Its worth remembering that there were still far right groups around in Germany, and the country was very conservative.

Its also worth remembering that groups like the Red Army Faction, 2nd June Movement, Red Cells, were a small part of a very large leftist movement, including the German Green Party (very successful) and the anti-nuclear movement (also very successful). Those other groups, really resulted in Germany becoming a much more liberal country.

At the time West Germany was 'doomed', the cold war heating up was a real fear, and that conflict would be played out in Germany.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

All major religions have at their core an intolerance of other religions. This intolerance can range from thinking other religious beliefs are weak or simply incompatible to society, to outright hatred - sometimes the whole range of feelings can exist within the same religion. This is probably one of the reasons why religions are successful - 'I'm validated, you are wrong'.
Within Christianity, Islam and Judaism there are liberal elements who co-exist with other religions peacefully - sometimes without caring too much about their own religious beliefs.
However, there are also fanatics, the fundamentalists, who cannot tolerate other religions. These range from people who will not speak to, do business with, or allow marriage with people of other religious creeds to downright fruitcakes who will lop off someone's head for the sake of their religious beliefs.
I suppose that is a bit like National-Socialism where democracy was seen as weak, whilst Communism was seen as punishable by death. Anti-Semitism was a popular device used to get the Nazis votes - I doubt they thought it would ever pan out the way it did initially.
There were also clearly liberal Nazis who would at the very least not get involved in atrocities and there were fanatical Nazis who would do anything to get involved in atrocities. There are surprising atrocities in WWII, such as the killing of British prisoners in the initial stages of the war.
However, Islam is not the new Nazi for one main reason - it is pan national (and not just with a small minority of people), and it is an established religion. Nazism was perhaps elevated to the status of pseudo-religious by the krauts but could in no way be considered a major world belief system. Although governments did have real worries about the spread of Nazism it never got much further than being followed by a small number of disaffected intelligentsia, except in Germany where the people seemed only too willing to give up their basic rights to have a sense of greatness and belonging again - no matter how stupid they looked in their scout uniforms and with their funny salutes.

Red and Blue Army!