Stadium Redevelopment

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Stadium Redevelopment

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grumpymort US/Thailand/UK 19 Apr 19 10.57pm
This post has been merged from a topic called 'Stadium plans' by bexleydave Originally posted by est1905 Trying to build/redevelop anything within the London boundaries is very difficult these days. Spurs greased a lot of palms to get approval for their stadium and even then it took years to get it done and came in way late and way over budget. Palace as a club have nowhere near as much political clout as Spurs not does Parish have the same negotiating strengths as Levy. If true, taking into account traffic issues, parking, etc there are no options locally away from Selhurst Park you have to make it work. A new main stand will bring about state of the art corporate facilities. This is where the money is. A top quality Premiership Corporate box in todays market can command 10m plus in revenue per year. A new main stand will give us 20 to 30 such boxes. Do the maths. It will be the difference between being able to compete financially in the top division or just trying to stay up each year. And when you look at the potential revenue a new main stand can bring in 100m to build it seems in the greater scheme of things pocket change. Even Parish realises this. Its not about wanting/not wanting a new stand. If the club is to survive long term in the Premiership its essential. It's difficult all over not just London but London does have a premium. Greasing palms is a part of it that's how the game works why else do you think SP is a** kissing council currently. It always takes years again this is how it is nothing different. People that are not in these industries really don't appear to have a clue how they work Spurs have done nothing new just gone done the route that is required and used smart people to get it done not like SP who really shows at times he either has very little contacts or is too cheap to do what is required. Some one in here had already stated about locations that would be much better for new ground this ground being expanded is pointless cost a lot and then you cant improve the transport links. The other thing is because you have the extra boxes etc doesn't mean you will get commercial money you need to be attractive and people do not find Selhurst attractive also getting to the ground is nightmare former staff/players people in the sport have even said this. Budget what budget regarding spurs its all media talk again anybody in that industry knows you can not set prices it doesn't work like that so you can be give estimate but many factors come to blame Brexit was a big ones in Spurs case. We need to sell off current ground/ land and move to another place with new stadium 40-45 thousand will be fine as starting point spending say 350m on that would be such a bonus for the club and really it only bit more then double what they would of paid for just that silly new stand only adding 8 thousand (VPN) - [Link] (Alt VPN) - [Link]
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grumpymort

US/Thailand/UK 19 Apr 19 10.57pm

This post has been merged from a topic called 'Stadium plans' by bexleydave

Originally posted by est1905

Trying to build/redevelop anything within the London boundaries is very difficult these days. Spurs greased a lot of palms to get approval for their stadium and even then it took years to get it done and came in way late and way over budget.
Palace as a club have nowhere near as much political clout as Spurs not does Parish have the same negotiating strengths as Levy.
If true, taking into account traffic issues, parking, etc there are no options locally away from Selhurst Park you have to make it work. A new main stand will bring about state of the art corporate facilities. This is where the money is. A top quality Premiership Corporate box in todays market can command 10m plus in revenue per year. A new main stand will give us 20 to 30 such boxes. Do the maths. It will be the difference between being able to compete financially in the top division or just trying to stay up each year.
And when you look at the potential revenue a new main stand can bring in 100m to build it seems in the greater scheme of things pocket change.
Even Parish realises this. Its not about wanting/not wanting a new stand. If the club is to survive long term in the Premiership its essential.

It's difficult all over not just London but London does have a premium.

Greasing palms is a part of it that's how the game works why else do you think SP is a** kissing council currently.

It always takes years again this is how it is nothing different.

People that are not in these industries really don't appear to have a clue how they work Spurs have done nothing new just gone done the route that is required and used smart people to get it done not like SP who really shows at times he either has very little contacts or is too cheap to do what is required.

Some one in here had already stated about locations that would be much better for new ground this ground being expanded is pointless cost a lot and then you cant improve the transport links.

The other thing is because you have the extra boxes etc doesn't mean you will get commercial money you need to be attractive and people do not find Selhurst attractive also getting to the ground is nightmare former staff/players people in the sport have even said this.

Budget what budget regarding spurs its all media talk again anybody in that industry knows you can not set prices it doesn't work like that so you can be give estimate but many factors come to blame Brexit was a big ones in Spurs case.

We need to sell off current ground/ land and move to another place with new stadium 40-45 thousand will be fine as starting point spending say 350m on that would be such a bonus for the club and really it only bit more then double what they would of paid for just that silly new stand only adding 8 thousand

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JoeViper bromley 20 Apr 19 5.56am
This post has been merged from a topic called 'Stadium plans' by bexleydave Originally posted by SeagullHunter I'm not blaming the man at all, but at least sell up to people who have a greater LT ambition, rather than using it as a cash generator for personal projects in the south of France. Does he have business interests in France? One of the biggest mysteries in life is that loud stupid people normally don't have even the slightest inclination that they are stupid.
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JoeViper

bromley 20 Apr 19 5.56am

This post has been merged from a topic called 'Stadium plans' by bexleydave

Originally posted by SeagullHunter

I'm not blaming the man at all, but at least sell up to people who have a greater LT ambition, rather than using it as a cash generator for personal projects in the south of France.

Does he have business interests in France?

One of the biggest mysteries in life is that loud stupid people normally don't have even the slightest inclination that they are stupid.

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Rudi Hedman Caterham 20 Apr 19 9.26am
This post has been merged from a topic called 'Stadium plans' by bexleydave Originally posted by Lombardos barber So many people who clearly haven't known the club from its pre-Premier League days. You must be about 17 mate. Do some reading. I’m probably older than you pal, which is why I said it. COYP
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Rudi Hedman

Caterham 20 Apr 19 9.26am

This post has been merged from a topic called 'Stadium plans' by bexleydave

Originally posted by Lombardos barber

So many people who clearly haven't known the club from its pre-Premier League days.

You must be about 17 mate. Do some reading.

I’m probably older than you pal, which is why I said it.

COYP

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Hrolf The Ganger 20 Apr 19 9.41am
This post has been merged from a topic called 'Stadium plans' by bexleydave Originally posted by grumpymort It's difficult all over not just London but London does have a premium. Greasing palms is a part of it that's how the game works why else do you think SP is a** kissing council currently. It always takes years again this is how it is nothing different. People that are not in these industries really don't appear to have a clue how they work Spurs have done nothing new just gone done the route that is required and used smart people to get it done not like SP who really shows at times he either has very little contacts or is too cheap to do what is required. Some one in here had already stated about locations that would be much better for new ground this ground being expanded is pointless cost a lot and then you cant improve the transport links. The other thing is because you have the extra boxes etc doesn't mean you will get commercial money you need to be attractive and people do not find Selhurst attractive also getting to the ground is nightmare former staff/players people in the sport have even said this. Budget what budget regarding spurs its all media talk again anybody in that industry knows you can not set prices it doesn't work like that so you can be give estimate but many factors come to blame Brexit was a big ones in Spurs case. We need to sell off current ground/ land and move to another place with new stadium 40-45 thousand will be fine as starting point spending say 350m on that would be such a bonus for the club and really it only bit more then double what they would of paid for just that silly new stand only adding 8 thousand And where will we play while our new ground is being built? To play at our ground while the new one was built would cost a fortune in loans. The only way I can see this happening is if someone very rich buys the club. Even then, the whole process could take a decade and that is if a suitable site could be found. Although it is not by any means ideal, a new stand by stand rebuild of Selhurst would mean income in the shorter term that the club is allowed to spend on players. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (20 Apr 2019 9.43am)
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Hrolf The Ganger

20 Apr 19 9.41am

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This post has been merged from a topic called 'Stadium plans' by bexleydave

Originally posted by grumpymort

It's difficult all over not just London but London does have a premium.

Greasing palms is a part of it that's how the game works why else do you think SP is a** kissing council currently.

It always takes years again this is how it is nothing different.

Some one in here had already stated about locations that would be much better for new ground this ground being expanded is pointless cost a lot and then you cant improve the transport links.

And where will we play while our new ground is being built?
To play at our ground while the new one was built would cost a fortune in loans.
The only way I can see this happening is if someone very rich buys the club. Even then, the whole process could take a decade and that is if a suitable site could be found.
Although it is not by any means ideal, a new stand by stand rebuild of Selhurst would mean income in the shorter term that the club is allowed to spend on players.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (20 Apr 2019 9.43am)

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est1905 20 Apr 19 5.53pm
This post has been merged from a topic called 'Stadium plans' by bexleydave Originally posted by grumpymort It's difficult all over not just London but London does have a premium. Greasing palms is a part of it that's how the game works why else do you think SP is a** kissing council currently. It always takes years again this is how it is nothing different. People that are not in these industries really don't appear to have a clue how they work Spurs have done nothing new just gone done the route that is required and used smart people to get it done not like SP who really shows at times he either has very little contacts or is too cheap to do what is required. Some one in here had already stated about locations that would be much better for new ground this ground being expanded is pointless cost a lot and then you cant improve the transport links. The other thing is because you have the extra boxes etc doesn't mean you will get commercial money you need to be attractive and people do not find Selhurst attractive also getting to the ground is nightmare former staff/players people in the sport have even said this. Budget what budget regarding spurs its all media talk again anybody in that industry knows you can not set prices it doesn't work like that so you can be give estimate but many factors come to blame Brexit was a big ones in Spurs case. We need to sell off current ground/ land and move to another place with new stadium 40-45 thousand will be fine as starting point spending say 350m on that would be such a bonus for the club and really it only bit more then double what they would of paid for just that silly new stand only adding 8 thousand You are laughably patronising and know no more about the situation than I do. Of course Spurs had a budget you idiot. Do you think they just contracted a builder to build and 'let us worry about the cost'? As for corporate boxes again you are a fool to think if state of the art ones were built we would not sell them. If WBA, Fulham, Watford, Wolves can sell out their corporate hospitality in either crap stadiums or deprived areas, trust me we'll have no problem doing it in London in a brand new stand
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est1905

20 Apr 19 5.53pm

This post has been merged from a topic called 'Stadium plans' by bexleydave

Originally posted by grumpymort

It's difficult all over not just London but London does have a premium.

Greasing palms is a part of it that's how the game works why else do you think SP is a** kissing council currently.

It always takes years again this is how it is nothing different.

Some one in here had already stated about locations that would be much better for new ground this ground being expanded is pointless cost a lot and then you cant improve the transport links.

You are laughably patronising and know no more about the situation than I do.
Of course Spurs had a budget you idiot. Do you think they just contracted a builder to build and 'let us worry about the cost'?
As for corporate boxes again you are a fool to think if state of the art ones were built we would not sell them. If WBA, Fulham, Watford, Wolves can sell out their corporate hospitality in either crap stadiums or deprived areas, trust me we'll have no problem doing it in London in a brand new stand

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est1905 20 Apr 19 5.57pm
This post has been merged from a topic called 'Stadium plans' by bexleydave Originally posted by grumpymort It's difficult all over not just London but London does have a premium. Greasing palms is a part of it that's how the game works why else do you think SP is a kissing council currently. It always takes years again this is how it is nothing different. People that are not in these industries really don't appear to have a clue how they work Spurs have done nothing new just gone done the route that is required and used smart people to get it done not like SP who really shows at times he either has very little contacts or is too cheap to do what is required. Some one in here had already stated about locations that would be much better for new ground this ground being expanded is pointless cost a lot and then you cant improve the transport links. The other thing is because you have the extra boxes etc doesn't mean you will get commercial money you need to be attractive and people do not find Selhurst attractive also getting to the ground is nightmare former staff/players people in the sport have even said this. Budget what budget regarding spurs its all media talk again anybody in that industry knows you can not set prices it doesn't work like that so you can be give estimate but many factors come to blame Brexit was a big ones in Spurs case. We need to sell off current ground/ land and move to another place with new stadium 40-45 thousand will be fine as starting point spending say 350m** on that would be such a bonus for the club and really it only bit more then double what they would of paid for just that silly new stand only adding 8 thousand Thats all you think it would cost? Including buying the land, back handers, architects designs AND the small matter of actually building the bloody thing. DELUDED!
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est1905

20 Apr 19 5.57pm

This post has been merged from a topic called 'Stadium plans' by bexleydave

Originally posted by grumpymort

It's difficult all over not just London but London does have a premium.

Greasing palms is a part of it that's how the game works why else do you think SP is a** kissing council currently.

It always takes years again this is how it is nothing different.

Some one in here had already stated about locations that would be much better for new ground this ground being expanded is pointless cost a lot and then you cant improve the transport links.

We need to sell off current ground/ land and move to another place with new stadium 40-45 thousand will be fine as starting point spending say 350m on that would be such a bonus for the club and really it only bit more then double what they would of paid for just that silly new stand only adding 8 thousand

Thats all you think it would cost? Including buying the land, back handers, architects designs AND the small matter of actually building the bloody thing.
DELUDED!

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grumpymort US/Thailand/UK 20 Apr 19 6.22pm
This post has been merged from a topic called 'Stadium plans' by bexleydave Originally posted by est1905 Thats all you think it would cost? Including buying the land, back handers, architects designs AND the small matter of actually building the bloody thing. DELUDED! that stuff would be covered by the money from the current ground/land being sold the 350m was the extra needed to raise. which if we cut a deal like spurs did with some Americans that could be almost halved (VPN) - [Link] (Alt VPN) - [Link]
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grumpymort

US/Thailand/UK 20 Apr 19 6.22pm

This post has been merged from a topic called 'Stadium plans' by bexleydave

Originally posted by est1905

Thats all you think it would cost? Including buying the land, back handers, architects designs AND the small matter of actually building the bloody thing.
DELUDED!

that stuff would be covered by the money from the current ground/land being sold the 350m was the extra needed to raise.

which if we cut a deal like spurs did with some Americans that could be almost halved

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est1905 21 Apr 19 5.45pm
This post has been merged from a topic called 'Stadium plans' by bexleydave Originally posted by grumpymort that stuff would be covered by the money from the current ground/land being sold the 350m was the extra needed to raise. which if we cut a deal like spurs did with some Americans that could be almost halved As I said, DELUDED. Selhurst Park cannot be sold to developers so a big housing project will not be writing CPFC any cheques for 500m plus any time soon I'm afraid. The site is almost worthless to anyone other than a football club. We all have Uncle Ron to thank for that. He applied for the pitch to be green belt (and got it accepted) so no one can EVER build on what is now the pitch. All surrounding buildings (ie the stands) have a sports and leisure order on them meaning houses will never be allowed to be built there. The site can only be used for sport or leisure. If we built a stadium away from Selhurst we would have very little money from any sale of Selhurst Park to fund it.
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est1905

21 Apr 19 5.45pm

This post has been merged from a topic called 'Stadium plans' by bexleydave

Originally posted by grumpymort

that stuff would be covered by the money from the current ground/land being sold the 350m was the extra needed to raise.

which if we cut a deal like spurs did with some Americans that could be almost halved

As I said, DELUDED. Selhurst Park cannot be sold to developers so a big housing project will not be writing CPFC any cheques for 500m plus any time soon I'm afraid. The site is almost worthless to anyone other than a football club. We all have Uncle Ron to thank for that. He applied for the pitch to be green belt (and got it accepted) so no one can EVER build on what is now the pitch. All surrounding buildings (ie the stands) have a sports and leisure order on them meaning houses will never be allowed to be built there. The site can only be used for sport or leisure.

If we built a stadium away from Selhurst we would have very little money from any sale of Selhurst Park to fund it.

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grumpymort US/Thailand/UK 21 Apr 19 6.02pm
This post has been merged from a topic called 'Stadium plans' by bexleydave Originally posted by est1905 As I said, DELUDED. Selhurst Park cannot be sold to developers so a big housing project will not be writing CPFC any cheques for 500m plus any time soon I'm afraid. The site is almost worthless to anyone other than a football club. We all have Uncle Ron to thank for that. He applied for the pitch to be green belt (and got it accepted) so no one can EVER build on what is now the pitch. All surrounding buildings (ie the stands) have a sports and leisure order on them meaning houses will never be allowed to be built there. The site can only be used for sport or leisure. If we built a stadium away from Selhurst we would have very little money from any sale of Selhurst Park to fund it. No one ever said that site would be worth 500m You are so wrong lots of developers would want that site. doesn't matter if it is classed as greenbelt this can be sorted and is done fairly amount on many other builds. you pay the right people anything can be done the only time you cant is if its heritage. you have no understanding how construction/development game works at all Edited by grumpymort (21 Apr 2019 6.05pm) (VPN) - [Link] (Alt VPN) - [Link]
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grumpymort

US/Thailand/UK 21 Apr 19 6.02pm

This post has been merged from a topic called 'Stadium plans' by bexleydave

Originally posted by est1905

If we built a stadium away from Selhurst we would have very little money from any sale of Selhurst Park to fund it.

No one ever said that site would be worth 500m

You are so wrong lots of developers would want that site.

doesn't matter if it is classed as greenbelt this can be sorted and is done fairly amount on many other builds.

you pay the right people anything can be done the only time you cant is if its heritage.

you have no understanding how construction/development game works at all

Edited by grumpymort (21 Apr 2019 6.05pm)

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cryrst The garden of England 21 Apr 19 6.39pm
This post has been merged from a topic called 'Stadium plans' by bexleydave Originally posted by est1905 As I said, DELUDED. Selhurst Park cannot be sold to developers so a big housing project will not be writing CPFC any cheques for 500m plus any time soon I'm afraid. The site is almost worthless to anyone other than a football club. We all have Uncle Ron to thank for that. He applied for the pitch to be green belt (and got it accepted) so no one can EVER build on what is now the pitch. All surrounding buildings (ie the stands) have a sports and leisure order on them meaning houses will never be allowed to be built there. The site can only be used for sport or leisure. If we built a stadium away from Selhurst we would have very little money from any sale of Selhurst Park to fund it. Highbury i think had the same stringent rules. It is now a massive development of flats,houses and apartments with a huge underground car park. The pitch is still in its original place with some flash paving ,planting and these water wall bubble things.this space is open to the residents. Admittedly it is larger than the selhurst plot but would still be a project to make money. At highbury they kept two of the stands and fitted apartments into the spaces in pods. The other two stands were knocked down and purpose built residences were done. If you can show that it will benefit the area with livable and some affordable housing the leisure bit could be overlooked. Highbury has an incorporated gym as well. This may overcome rons kindly act !!!! I work there so know this would work at selhurst if allowed. Google highbury square. Avenell road and look. Quite eye opening.
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cryrst

The garden of England 21 Apr 19 6.39pm

This post has been merged from a topic called 'Stadium plans' by bexleydave

Originally posted by est1905

If we built a stadium away from Selhurst we would have very little money from any sale of Selhurst Park to fund it.

Highbury i think had the same stringent rules.
It is now a massive development of flats,houses and apartments with a huge underground car park.
The pitch is still in its original place with some flash paving ,planting and these water wall bubble things.this space is open to the residents.
Admittedly it is larger than the selhurst plot but would still be a project to make money.
At highbury they kept two of the stands and fitted apartments into the spaces in pods.
The other two stands were knocked down and purpose built residences were done.
If you can show that it will benefit the area with livable and some affordable housing the leisure bit could be overlooked.
Highbury has an incorporated gym as well.
This may overcome rons kindly act !!!!
I work there so know this would work at selhurst if allowed.
Google highbury square. Avenell road and look.
Quite eye opening.

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est1905 22 Apr 19 6.09pm
This post has been merged from a topic called 'Stadium plans' by bexleydave Originally posted by grumpymort No one ever said that site would be worth 500m You are so wrong lots of developers would want that site. doesn't matter if it is classed as greenbelt this can be sorted and is done fairly amount on many other builds. you pay the right people anything can be done the only time you cant is if its heritage. you have no understanding how construction/development game works at all Edited by grumpymort (21 Apr 2019 6.05pm) I think I know a hell of a lot more than you. A very close relation of mine sold land in East London only two years ago that has far fewer restrictions on it than Selhurst Park. The developers were willing to pay big for the land and worry about the restrictions afterwards as long as they got Outline Planning. Guess what? Local Authority, later the Borough council, eventually the Home office ALL said no. As it turned out he needed rid of the land for private reasons I wont go into. He got what most would consider good money but what a land owner looking to sell a good sized piece of land in an area where there is NEVER land available considered peanuts. But he sold and moved on (metaphorically, he'd never lived there). At the last check about a month ago the new owner of the land is stuck with it as is and has been unable to do a thing with it. I mentioned 500m as that sounds about the amount you think we'd get for Selhurst based on your thinking 'we'd only need another 350m all in'. We wouldn't even get a tenth of that figure and thats if you did manage to overcome all the planning restrictions on the site. Which you will not guaranteed.
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est1905

22 Apr 19 6.09pm

This post has been merged from a topic called 'Stadium plans' by bexleydave

Originally posted by grumpymort

No one ever said that site would be worth 500m

You are so wrong lots of developers would want that site.

doesn't matter if it is classed as greenbelt this can be sorted and is done fairly amount on many other builds.

you pay the right people anything can be done the only time you cant is if its heritage.

you have no understanding how construction/development game works at all

Edited by grumpymort (21 Apr 2019 6.05pm)

I think I know a hell of a lot more than you. A very close relation of mine sold land in East London only two years ago that has far fewer restrictions on it than Selhurst Park. The developers were willing to pay big for the land and worry about the restrictions afterwards as long as they got Outline Planning. Guess what? Local Authority, later the Borough council, eventually the Home office ALL said no.
As it turned out he needed rid of the land for private reasons I wont go into. He got what most would consider good money but what a land owner looking to sell a good sized piece of land in an area where there is NEVER land available considered peanuts. But he sold and moved on (metaphorically, he'd never lived there). At the last check about a month ago the new owner of the land is stuck with it as is and has been unable to do a thing with it.
I mentioned 500m as that sounds about the amount you think we'd get for Selhurst based on your thinking 'we'd only need another 350m all in'. We wouldn't even get a tenth of that figure and thats if you did manage to overcome all the planning restrictions on the site. Which you will not guaranteed.

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Stirlingsays 22 Apr 19 6.26pm
This post has been merged from a topic called 'Stadium plans' by bexleydave Originally posted by grumpymort We need to sell off current ground/ land and move to another place with new stadium 40-45 thousand will be fine as starting point spending say 350m on that would be such a bonus for the club and really it only bit more then double what they would of paid for just that silly new stand only adding 8 thousand I agree with this point. I don't ever see Palace moving into big club status by remaining at Selhurst Park. I know that this isn't a popular view with many people but it's the overall reality. I can't help but have the impression that by spending big on another stand we are cementing ourselves in as an eventual yo-yo club.....Due to luck and a couple of special players we have bucked that trend recently....but I'm worried that if we stay where we are essentially our best years will always be Premiership mid table as our best result and relegation and top ten Championship as our worst. Edited by Stirlingsays (22 Apr 2019 6.29pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

22 Apr 19 6.26pm

This post has been merged from a topic called 'Stadium plans' by bexleydave

Originally posted by grumpymort

We need to sell off current ground/ land and move to another place with new stadium 40-45 thousand will be fine as starting point spending say 350m on that would be such a bonus for the club and really it only bit more then double what they would of paid for just that silly new stand only adding 8 thousand

I agree with this point.

I don't ever see Palace moving into big club status by remaining at Selhurst Park. I know that this isn't a popular view with many people but it's the overall reality.

I can't help but have the impression that by spending big on another stand we are cementing ourselves in as an eventual yo-yo club.....Due to luck and a couple of special players we have bucked that trend recently....but I'm worried that if we stay where we are essentially our best years will always be Premiership mid table as our best result and relegation and top ten Championship as our worst.

Edited by Stirlingsays (22 Apr 2019 6.29pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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