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steeleye20 Croydon 20 Nov 21 11.38am
I watch all the US detective series, the advances in forensics etc. But they are endless and the common denominator is the casual relationship with guns. And they are impervious to any kind of logic on the issue. In the UK we have strict and working laws on guns, there will never be zero gun crime but it is a success. I think if domiciled in the USA I would stay indoors, and even then it wouldn't be that safe.
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steeleye20

Croydon 20 Nov 21 11.38am

I watch all the US detective series, the advances in forensics etc.

But they are endless and the common denominator is the casual relationship with guns.

And they are impervious to any kind of logic on the issue.

In the UK we have strict and working laws on guns, there will never be zero gun crime but it is a success.

I think if domiciled in the USA I would stay indoors, and even then it wouldn't be that safe.

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Matov 20 Nov 21 11.46am
Originally posted by steeleye20 I think if domiciled in the USA I would stay indoors, and even then it wouldn't be that safe. Even in states with strict gun laws? "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.
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Matov

20 Nov 21 11.46am

Originally posted by steeleye20

I think if domiciled in the USA I would stay indoors, and even then it wouldn't be that safe.

Even in states with strict gun laws?

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

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Badger11 Beckenham 20 Nov 21 12.17pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle Not if you believe, as many do, that it applies only to legally organised militias, as defined when it was written. So what you think, as a non US citizen, is hardly important. Nor does it address the fact that this kid had no legitimate reason to be there. Had he not been, then 2 people would still have been alive, whether they were killed in self defence or not. This is one of the issues to come out of this trial. The law there only considers the circumstances at the moment the weapon was fired. Not the context of why he was there or why he was carrying a weapon. That, I think, will change. Whilst I agree with your interpretation as you indicate it doesn't matter what we think the US Supreme Court has ruled on this many times over several hundred years and they beg to differ. One more point
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Badger11

Beckenham 20 Nov 21 12.17pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Not if you believe, as many do, that it applies only to legally organised militias, as defined when it was written. So what you think, as a non US citizen, is hardly important.

Nor does it address the fact that this kid had no legitimate reason to be there. Had he not been, then 2 people would still have been alive, whether they were killed in self defence or not.

This is one of the issues to come out of this trial. The law there only considers the circumstances at the moment the weapon was fired. Not the context of why he was there or why he was carrying a weapon.

That, I think, will change.

Whilst I agree with your interpretation as you indicate it doesn't matter what we think the US Supreme Court has ruled on this many times over several hundred years and they beg to differ.

One more point

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Stirlingsays 20 Nov 21 12.33pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle Not if you believe, as many do, that it applies only to legally organised militias, as defined when it was written. So what you think, as a non US citizen, is hardly important. Nor does it address the fact that this kid had no legitimate reason to be there. Had he not been, then 2 people would still have been alive, whether they were killed in self defence or not. This is one of the issues to come out of this trial. The law there only considers the circumstances at the moment the weapon was fired. Not the context of why he was there or why he was carrying a weapon. That, I think, will change. Well, that could be argued about the people out there that night....if they hadn't been out there threatening and damaging businesses then Rittenhouse wouldn't have been there. If the Democrats had done their jobs in respect of law enforcement then it's also true that none of it would have happened either. Also once again, Rittenhouse was asked to help, and that's evidenced in the trial....it's not as though no one asked him. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

20 Nov 21 12.33pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Not if you believe, as many do, that it applies only to legally organised militias, as defined when it was written. So what you think, as a non US citizen, is hardly important.

Nor does it address the fact that this kid had no legitimate reason to be there. Had he not been, then 2 people would still have been alive, whether they were killed in self defence or not.

That, I think, will change.

Well, that could be argued about the people out there that night....if they hadn't been out there threatening and damaging businesses then Rittenhouse wouldn't have been there.

If the Democrats had done their jobs in respect of law enforcement then it's also true that none of it would have happened either.

Also once again, Rittenhouse was asked to help, and that's evidenced in the trial....it's not as though no one asked him.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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DanH SW2 20 Nov 21 12.53pm
Weird correlation between the posters that think London is overrun with knife crime and those perfectly fine with a kid able to knock about with a gun and shoot people perfectly legally supposedly.
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DanH

SW2 20 Nov 21 12.53pm

Weird correlation between the posters that think London is overrun with knife crime and those perfectly fine with a kid able to knock about with a gun and shoot people perfectly legally supposedly.

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Forest Hillbilly in a hidey-hole 20 Nov 21 12.57pm
There were quite a few armed citizens on the streets 'assisting' the police. Rittenhouse was not alone in being a vigilante. Rittenhouse, it appears, was singled out by a few people who didn't want him there. It would be likely that there were other armed citizens from outside the locale. This particular case has high-lighted some frailties in US gun law, and in the wider legal context. Though they've followed due-process, it does seem like the legal system has inadvertently given a green-light to any gun-toting individual to 'get involved' in civil disturbances. I disengage, I turn the page.
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Forest Hillbilly

in a hidey-hole 20 Nov 21 12.57pm

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There were quite a few armed citizens on the streets 'assisting' the police. Rittenhouse was not alone in being a vigilante. Rittenhouse, it appears, was singled out by a few people who didn't want him there.
It would be likely that there were other armed citizens from outside the locale.

This particular case has high-lighted some frailties in US gun law, and in the wider legal context.

Though they've followed due-process, it does seem like the legal system has inadvertently given a green-light to any gun-toting individual to 'get involved' in civil disturbances.

I disengage, I turn the page.

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Stirlingsays 20 Nov 21 1.27pm
Originally posted by DanH Weird correlation between the posters that think London is overrun with knife crime and those perfectly fine with a kid able to knock about with a gun and shoot people perfectly legally supposedly. The knife crime levels are down to the left and their ideologies. As for Rittenhouse you are conflating US and British systems. If this would have happened in the UK then you'd have to question why all these guns are about.....just as I can question why Labour run areas with super high knife crime. In the US, as we know, guns are a daily and legal reality and that's not changing. However, having watched a fair amount of the trial, in terms of self defence I have no issues with Rittenhouse in each of the situations as each of them chose to attack him....he didn't come to them, they came to him with aggression. The correct verdict was reached. Edited by Stirlingsays (20 Nov 2021 1.28pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

20 Nov 21 1.27pm

Originally posted by DanH

Weird correlation between the posters that think London is overrun with knife crime and those perfectly fine with a kid able to knock about with a gun and shoot people perfectly legally supposedly.

The knife crime levels are down to the left and their ideologies.

As for Rittenhouse you are conflating US and British systems.

If this would have happened in the UK then you'd have to question why all these guns are about.....just as I can question why Labour run areas with super high knife crime.

In the US, as we know, guns are a daily and legal reality and that's not changing.

However, having watched a fair amount of the trial, in terms of self defence I have no issues with Rittenhouse in each of the situations as each of them chose to attack him....he didn't come to them, they came to him with aggression. The correct verdict was reached.

Edited by Stirlingsays (20 Nov 2021 1.28pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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DanH SW2 20 Nov 21 1.35pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays The knife crime levels are down to the left and their ideologies. As for Rittenhouse you are conflating US and British systems. If this would have happened in the UK then you'd have to question why all these guns are about.....just as I can question why Labour run areas with super high knife crime. In the US, as we know, guns are a daily and legal reality and that's not changing. However, having watched a fair amount of the trial, in terms of self defence I have no issues with Rittenhouse in each of the situations as each of them chose to attack him....he didn't come to them, they came to him with aggression. The correct verdict was reached. Edited by Stirlingsays (20 Nov 2021 1.28pm) He still killed two people. Weird thing to celebrate.
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DanH

SW2 20 Nov 21 1.35pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

The knife crime levels are down to the left and their ideologies.

As for Rittenhouse you are conflating US and British systems.

If this would have happened in the UK then you'd have to question why all these guns are about.....just as I can question why Labour run areas with super high knife crime.

In the US, as we know, guns are a daily and legal reality and that's not changing.

Edited by Stirlingsays (20 Nov 2021 1.28pm)

He still killed two people. Weird thing to celebrate.

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Stirlingsays 20 Nov 21 1.42pm
Originally posted by DanH He still killed two people. Weird thing to celebrate. I agree with that. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

20 Nov 21 1.42pm

Originally posted by DanH

He still killed two people. Weird thing to celebrate.

I agree with that.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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steeleye20 Croydon 20 Nov 21 1.46pm
Judges should not have any bias and should not influence the jury but advise them on the law. I can't recall recently such such blatant interference, the jury decide on what they have heard, not on a judges personal interpretation of events. We all know that if this boy was black he would have been found guilty. To think you can get away with murdering 2 people because you are a white boy.
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steeleye20

Croydon 20 Nov 21 1.46pm

Judges should not have any bias and should not influence the jury but advise them on the law.

I can't recall recently such such blatant interference, the jury decide on what they have heard, not on a judges personal interpretation of events.

We all know that if this boy was black he would have been found guilty.

To think you can get away with murdering 2 people because you are a white boy.

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DanH SW2 20 Nov 21 1.46pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays The knife crime levels are down to the left and their ideologies. As for Rittenhouse you are conflating US and British systems. If this would have happened in the UK then you'd have to question why all these guns are about.....just as I can question why Labour run areas with super high knife crime. In the US, as we know, guns are a daily and legal reality and that's not changing. However, having watched a fair amount of the trial, in terms of self defence I have no issues with Rittenhouse in each of the situations as each of them chose to attack him....he didn't come to them, they came to him with aggression. The correct verdict was reached. Edited by Stirlingsays (20 Nov 2021 1.28pm) The gun crime levels in the US are down to the right and their ideologies. ‘There were 34 firearm homicides in the US per million of population in 2016, compared with 0.48 shooting-related murders in the UK. Knife murders are also higher stateside: there were 4.96 homicides “due to knives or cutting instruments” in the US for every million of population in 2016. In Britain there were 3.26 homicides involving a sharp instrument per million people in the year from April 2016 to March 2017.’ [Link] Is the left to blame for the US knife murder rate being higher too?
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DanH

SW2 20 Nov 21 1.46pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

The knife crime levels are down to the left and their ideologies.

As for Rittenhouse you are conflating US and British systems.

If this would have happened in the UK then you'd have to question why all these guns are about.....just as I can question why Labour run areas with super high knife crime.

In the US, as we know, guns are a daily and legal reality and that's not changing.

Edited by Stirlingsays (20 Nov 2021 1.28pm)

The gun crime levels in the US are down to the right and their ideologies.

‘There were 34 firearm homicides in the US per million of population in 2016, compared with 0.48 shooting-related murders in the UK.

Knife murders are also higher stateside: there were 4.96 homicides “due to knives or cutting instruments” in the US for every million of population in 2016.

In Britain there were 3.26 homicides involving a sharp instrument per million people in the year from April 2016 to March 2017.’

[Link]

Is the left to blame for the US knife murder rate being higher too?

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Badger11 Beckenham 20 Nov 21 1.47pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays I agree with that. Seconded. I don't think he should have been there but that aside I don't see anyone on here celebrating him killing 2 people even if it was justified according to the jury. One more point
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Badger11

Beckenham 20 Nov 21 1.47pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

I agree with that.

Seconded. I don't think he should have been there but that aside I don't see anyone on here celebrating him killing 2 people even if it was justified according to the jury.

One more point

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