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PalazioVecchio south pole 14 Feb 23 8.08pm
Originally posted by cryrst The eu need us for our money and our open border for the cock up they have made about said immigration policy. Feck em, they are trying to make it harder but Ireland is on the verge of turning and that is really the marker to our stubbornness having an effect. Ireland. Imagine flooding a country with unvetted men of Military age and a consequent rise of the 'so called' Right. oh , we never saw that coming. in fact, most of this 'right' is housewives pushing baby-buggies and p1ssed off that their kids are no longer safe. Edited by PalazioVecchio (14 Feb 2023 8.12pm) Kayla did Anfield & Old Trafford
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PalazioVecchio

south pole 14 Feb 23 8.08pm

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Originally posted by cryrst

The eu need us for our money and our open border for the cock up they have made about said immigration policy. Feck em, they are trying to make it harder but Ireland is on the verge of turning and that is really the marker to our stubbornness having an effect.

Ireland.

Imagine flooding a country with unvetted men of Military age and a consequent rise of the 'so called' Right.

oh , we never saw that coming.

in fact, most of this 'right' is housewives pushing baby-buggies and p1ssed off that their kids are no longer safe.

Edited by PalazioVecchio (14 Feb 2023 8.12pm)

Kayla did Anfield & Old Trafford

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SW19 CPFC Addiscombe West 14 Feb 23 8.24pm
Originally posted by Badger11 I don't understand the term hard Brexit. We voted to leave so that our Parliament would decide our laws after that it is up to Parliament and the electorate to decide what type of country we become. The issue for me about the single market for instance was the insistence by the EU that those rules also governed our trading with non EU countries. In other words they would dictate our trading policy with the rest of the world. If the EU had said yes you can stay in the single market but are free to do business elsewhere I would have been quite happy to stay in the SM. So for me there is no such thing as a hard Brexit it's in or out and we voted accordingly. PS I forgot to mention the concept of hard and soft Brexit only really emerged after the referendum when the politicians started talking about it as a way of delaying and backtracking . For us voters it was in or out. Edited by Badger11 (14 Feb 2023 5.50pm) 'For me' I suggest you do some more reading around the complexity of leaving after decades of collaboration. There were/are several different ways of transitioning away from that relationship, none of them are simple and straightforward. Hard/Soft were clearly the terms that stuck to simply explain the sliding scale of how. I would wager if you were privy to the complexity of the issue you'd lose your mind. Another case of oversimplification... if you just expected us to cut everything off from day 1 and be done with it, again, candyfloss thinking without any appreciation of the scale of the task. So many unknowns and knock on effects... it will take years to unravel and caution is a far better approach to a scenario that no-one has ever attempted to tackle before. But of course, 'for us voters it was in or out'. Jesus Edited by SW19 CPFC (14 Feb 2023 8.24pm) Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.
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SW19 CPFC

Addiscombe West 14 Feb 23 8.24pm

Originally posted by Badger11

I don't understand the term hard Brexit. We voted to leave so that our Parliament would decide our laws after that it is up to Parliament and the electorate to decide what type of country we become.

The issue for me about the single market for instance was the insistence by the EU that those rules also governed our trading with non EU countries. In other words they would dictate our trading policy with the rest of the world.

If the EU had said yes you can stay in the single market but are free to do business elsewhere I would have been quite happy to stay in the SM.

So for me there is no such thing as a hard Brexit it's in or out and we voted accordingly.

PS I forgot to mention the concept of hard and soft Brexit only really emerged after the referendum when the politicians started talking about it as a way of delaying and backtracking .

For us voters it was in or out.

Edited by Badger11 (14 Feb 2023 5.50pm)

'For me'

I suggest you do some more reading around the complexity of leaving after decades of collaboration. There were/are several different ways of transitioning away from that relationship, none of them are simple and straightforward.

Hard/Soft were clearly the terms that stuck to simply explain the sliding scale of how. I would wager if you were privy to the complexity of the issue you'd lose your mind.

Another case of oversimplification... if you just expected us to cut everything off from day 1 and be done with it, again, candyfloss thinking without any appreciation of the scale of the task.

So many unknowns and knock on effects... it will take years to unravel and caution is a far better approach to a scenario that no-one has ever attempted to tackle before.

But of course, 'for us voters it was in or out'.

Jesus

Edited by SW19 CPFC (14 Feb 2023 8.24pm)

Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.

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SW19 CPFC Addiscombe West 14 Feb 23 8.26pm
Originally posted by cryrst Why would it have been different in 20 years? If we are still around let’s see where we are at and the eu is at, then revisit that line. Do you understand trends? Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.
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SW19 CPFC

Addiscombe West 14 Feb 23 8.26pm

Originally posted by cryrst

Why would it have been different in 20 years?
If we are still around let’s see where we are at and the eu is at, then revisit that line.

Do you understand trends?

Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.

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Badger11 Beckenham 14 Feb 23 8.34pm
Originally posted by SW19 CPFC 'For me' I suggest you do some more reading around the complexity of leaving after decades of collaboration. There were/are several different ways of transitioning away from that relationship, none of them are simple and straightforward. Hard/Soft were clearly the terms that stuck to simply explain the sliding scale of how. I would wager if you were privy to the complexity of the issue you'd lose your mind. Another case of oversimplification... if you just expected us to cut everything off from day 1 and be done with it, again, candyfloss thinking without any appreciation of the scale of the task. So many unknowns and knock on effects... it will take years to unravel and caution is a far better approach to a scenario that no-one has ever attempted to tackle before. But of course, 'for us voters it was in or out'. Jesus Edited by SW19 CPFC (14 Feb 2023 8.24pm) The complexity was for the politicians to work out. Parties ask the public to vote for policies e.g. solve the energy crisis I don't need to understand how a nuclear power station works. One more point
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Badger11

Beckenham 14 Feb 23 8.34pm

Originally posted by SW19 CPFC

'For me'

Hard/Soft were clearly the terms that stuck to simply explain the sliding scale of how. I would wager if you were privy to the complexity of the issue you'd lose your mind.

Another case of oversimplification... if you just expected us to cut everything off from day 1 and be done with it, again, candyfloss thinking without any appreciation of the scale of the task.

So many unknowns and knock on effects... it will take years to unravel and caution is a far better approach to a scenario that no-one has ever attempted to tackle before.

But of course, 'for us voters it was in or out'.

Jesus

Edited by SW19 CPFC (14 Feb 2023 8.24pm)

The complexity was for the politicians to work out. Parties ask the public to vote for policies e.g. solve the energy crisis I don't need to understand how a nuclear power station works.

One more point

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SW19 CPFC Addiscombe West 14 Feb 23 8.40pm
Originally posted by PalazioVecchio the recently joined the EU countries ......... what is their annual GDP per capita ? poor countries. and the proposed new-to-join countries ? even poorer. The Countries not wanting into the EU.....Norway, Switzerland, Iceland ? they are better off. better off Both economically, culturally and in terms of controlling their own borders. follow the link below and celebrate Brexit.... [Link] It's far more complex than just Norway good, so we would be good. Those three countries have never been in the EU, for starters. They've had 40 years to work out and implement a strategy (starting from a position where the EU was far less powerful and influential, I might add) to allow them to thrive outside of the system. We've been woven into it for the same length of time. It's not like flipping a switch. Not even close. They're also very very different to the UK, in so many ways. Also, it could well be that those three would be in an even better position had they joined 20 years ago. Who knows. It's not as deterministic as you make out, just like the lazy suggestion that we also would be. We might, but you can't cite those three as proof of it or use them as a direct comparison. Apples and pears The 'in terms of controlling their own borders'. Constantly annoys me that such a complex issue continually gets simplified to immigration/border control. It's one small component of the whole thing, but I get it, it's easier to understand and make sense of. I don't disagree that the balance of contributions when in the EU amongst countries is a big issue, but ultimately that gets negotiated. Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.
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SW19 CPFC

Addiscombe West 14 Feb 23 8.40pm

Originally posted by PalazioVecchio

the recently joined the EU countries ......... what is their annual GDP per capita ?

poor countries.

and the proposed new-to-join countries ? even poorer.

The Countries not wanting into the EU.....Norway, Switzerland, Iceland ? they are better off.

better off Both economically, culturally and in terms of controlling their own borders.

follow the link below and celebrate Brexit....

[Link]

It's far more complex than just Norway good, so we would be good.

Those three countries have never been in the EU, for starters. They've had 40 years to work out and implement a strategy (starting from a position where the EU was far less powerful and influential, I might add) to allow them to thrive outside of the system. We've been woven into it for the same length of time. It's not like flipping a switch. Not even close.

They're also very very different to the UK, in so many ways.

Also, it could well be that those three would be in an even better position had they joined 20 years ago. Who knows. It's not as deterministic as you make out, just like the lazy suggestion that we also would be. We might, but you can't cite those three as proof of it or use them as a direct comparison. Apples and pears

The 'in terms of controlling their own borders'. Constantly annoys me that such a complex issue continually gets simplified to immigration/border control. It's one small component of the whole thing, but I get it, it's easier to understand and make sense of.

I don't disagree that the balance of contributions when in the EU amongst countries is a big issue, but ultimately that gets negotiated.

Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.

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Matov 14 Feb 23 9.10pm
Originally posted by SW19 CPFC The 'in terms of controlling their own borders'. Constantly annoys me that such a complex issue continually gets simplified to immigration/border control. It's one small component of the whole thing, but I get it, it's easier to understand and make sense of. . Except ultimately, it's not 'simplified'. It is the essential question that hangs over everything EU related because it sums up competing visions of the future status of the 'nation state'. The vision of a Europe without internal borders is one that is not without merit. The notion of being able to travel from the western most beaches of Portugal all the way up to the borders of Russia without any kind of border control has a definite merit. But with that comes a dilution of notions of a how a sovereign nation is defined. Ultimately the key question to all of it. And a vision that the Remain side never even tried to sell as a positive. You cannot just dismiss the very key component of what it means to sign up to the EU vision as being mere populist froth. It is the key to it all. Edited by Matov (14 Feb 2023 9.12pm) "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.
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Matov

14 Feb 23 9.10pm

Originally posted by SW19 CPFC

Except ultimately, it's not 'simplified'. It is the essential question that hangs over everything EU related because it sums up competing visions of the future status of the 'nation state'.

The vision of a Europe without internal borders is one that is not without merit. The notion of being able to travel from the western most beaches of Portugal all the way up to the borders of Russia without any kind of border control has a definite merit. But with that comes a dilution of notions of a how a sovereign nation is defined.

Ultimately the key question to all of it. And a vision that the Remain side never even tried to sell as a positive.

You cannot just dismiss the very key component of what it means to sign up to the EU vision as being mere populist froth. It is the key to it all.

Edited by Matov (14 Feb 2023 9.12pm)

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

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cryrst The garden of England 14 Feb 23 9.12pm
Originally posted by SW19 CPFC Do you understand trends? I had farahs and Pringle jumpers at school. Is that what you mean
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cryrst

The garden of England 14 Feb 23 9.12pm

Originally posted by SW19 CPFC

Do you understand trends?

I had farahs and Pringle jumpers at school. Is that what you mean

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 14 Feb 23 9.20pm
Originally posted by Badger11 That's what happens when you play the passport game. He was born in America of Irish (Possibly NI Parents) grew up in Ireland and England had a British passport but then took out German Citizenship. The High Court and Appeals court decided that although he never took out British Citizenship as he had a British passport that qualified him. An odious man got his just desserts comparing him to Nigel Farage is like comparing Corbyn to Stalin ridiculous. Who said he would be compared? What was said was they would be on the same page in history books. Why? Because they both wanted to change our country in a radical way. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 14 Feb 23 9.20pm

Originally posted by Badger11

That's what happens when you play the passport game. He was born in America of Irish (Possibly NI Parents) grew up in Ireland and England had a British passport but then took out German Citizenship. The High Court and Appeals court decided that although he never took out British Citizenship as he had a British passport that qualified him.

An odious man got his just desserts comparing him to Nigel Farage is like comparing Corbyn to Stalin ridiculous.

Who said he would be compared?

What was said was they would be on the same page in history books.

Why? Because they both wanted to change our country in a radical way.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 14 Feb 23 9.30pm
Originally posted by the silurian For your money?? Of course not! This obsession that leavers continue to have with the cost of running the EU is so short-sighted and simplistic. It’s the whole package which must be considered and for me the benefits hugely outweigh the costs. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 14 Feb 23 9.30pm

Originally posted by the silurian

For your money??

Of course not! This obsession that leavers continue to have with the cost of running the EU is so short-sighted and simplistic. It’s the whole package which must be considered and for me the benefits hugely outweigh the costs.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 14 Feb 23 9.35pm
Originally posted by cryrst On nail head Also wissie has constantly posted about his whole brethren agreeing with him. One wonders why every single one thought brexit was bad. My kids asked me and all I said was are you ok with where you are. So we all voted remain on that. Subsequently every one of them has regretted that vote on their own thoughts and self education. Are they stupid or just seeing the eu for the absolute shower it is. Edited by cryrst (14 Feb 2023 7.37pm) My children and especially my grandchildren were appalled at the decision and remain as committed to reversing it as me. As that appears to be a strong trend among the young it seems your own children are the odd ones out. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 14 Feb 23 9.35pm

Originally posted by cryrst

On nail head
Also wissie has constantly posted about his whole brethren agreeing with him. One wonders why every single one thought brexit was bad. My kids asked me and all I said was are you ok with where you are. So we all voted remain on that. Subsequently every one of them has regretted that vote on their own thoughts and self education. Are they stupid or just seeing the eu for the absolute shower it is.

Edited by cryrst (14 Feb 2023 7.37pm)

My children and especially my grandchildren were appalled at the decision and remain as committed to reversing it as me. As that appears to be a strong trend among the young it seems your own children are the odd ones out.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Hrolf The Ganger 14 Feb 23 9.40pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle My children and especially my grandchildren were appalled at the decision and remain as committed to reversing it as me. As that appears to be a strong trend among the young it seems your own children are the odd ones out. At least they have an excuse for being gullible. What's yours?
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Hrolf The Ganger

14 Feb 23 9.40pm

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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

At least they have an excuse for being gullible.

What's yours?

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 14 Feb 23 9.49pm
Originally posted by mezzer Been on the hyperbole tablets again WE? "We need to be in the EU". Why? "The EU needs us to be in the EU" Why? "The world needs us to be in the EU" Why? We need to be in because we will be both safer and more prosperous. They need us to ensure that Europe speaks with one voice, that there isn’t a hole in the jigsaw. The EU isn’t complete without us. The world needs the EU to be complete and represent the whole of Europe in today’s challenging times. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 14 Feb 23 9.49pm

Originally posted by mezzer

Been on the hyperbole tablets again WE?

"We need to be in the EU".
Why?
"The EU needs us to be in the EU"
Why?
"The world needs us to be in the EU"
Why?

We need to be in because we will be both safer and more prosperous.

They need us to ensure that Europe speaks with one voice, that there isn’t a hole in the jigsaw. The EU isn’t complete without us.

The world needs the EU to be complete and represent the whole of Europe in today’s challenging times.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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