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Teddy Eagle 22 Aug 23 8.15am | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
There was obviously a misunderstanding about whether the numbers referred to the total of unvaccinated or just those who were hospitalised. The important point is that 7% of the population were responsible for 35% of the hospital admissions. How many the number was is detail because we know that whatever it was it produced a major problem. Responsible for 35% of those admitted to hospital with Covid not all admissions.
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 22 Aug 23 8.53am | |
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I see that the original excuses for failing to act responsibly over the vaccines are being dusted off and used again. So they need to be debunked again. Comparing the way we, and the NHS, respond to the lifestyle choices of others and the way we needed to respond to the Covid emergency is disingenuous. Lifestyle choices have existed for a very long time and dealing with their consequences is factored into the work of the NHS. Trying to improve behaviour over smoking, drinking, obesity, drug abuse etc etc is also a long term matter and providing treatment in the meantime is budgeted. Exactly the same applies to seasonal illnesses like flu. It’s expected and the resources are available to handle it. Covid was unexpected. You cannot have unused surplus resources available for every emergency so you need to react and adjust to cope. That demands a national response on many levels and requires that we all participate. Those that choose not to without good reason are behaving irresponsibly and in a selfish way if the authorities have determined that the recommended actions are safe. The problem is that too many don’t trust the authorities and prefer to trust either their own scepticism or the words of those who propose alternative strategies. This ends up with a situation similar to a country fighting a war in which the army and the navy are fighting, but the airforce has decided not to because they don’t believe the strategy will work and don’t want any scratches on their shiny aircraft. Having different opinions on strategy will exist in any situation. Once they have been heard and reviewed a decision must be made and then, in an emergency, it’s essential that everyone who can follow it, does follow it. You don’t send the elderly or infirm to war, but you do send the reluctant able bodied. Conscientious objectors were shamed, often ostracised and required to do other war work. Those who claim, without evidence, that things would have been better if only their strategy had been followed have been populating barrack rooms and bars since disputes existed. We know what is. Now we must deal with it. That was our decision.
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 22 Aug 23 9.01am | |
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Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
Responsible for 35% of those admitted to hospital with Covid not all admissions. That’s what I said. 35% of the places in Covid wards came from 7% of the population. Providing clear evidence that the unvaccinated produced the biggest strain on the NHS and therefore were disproportionately responsible for the consequential backlogs, missed treatments, missed diagnoses and additional deaths.
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Teddy Eagle 22 Aug 23 10.07am | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
That’s what I said. 35% of the places in Covid wards came from 7% of the population. Providing clear evidence that the unvaccinated produced the biggest strain on the NHS and therefore were disproportionately responsible for the consequential backlogs, missed treatments, missed diagnoses and additional deaths. It mY have been what upu meant but it isn't what you said. Just quoting percentages doesn't explain anything when 35% could be 12 patients.
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eaglesdare 22 Aug 23 10.25am | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
As I have already pointed out some politicians over stated the benefits to encourage the take up during a time when the understanding of the disease was still in its infancy. There is a huge difference in trying to encourage people to partIcipate in a national effort to overcome a new threat that affected everyone and deliberately misinforming them. Read this:- "You're not going to get COVID if you have these vaccinations," Biden said on July 21, 2021. - Pure and simple Misinformation it was not overstatement.
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 22 Aug 23 11.53am | |
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Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
It mY have been what upu meant but it isn't what you said. Just quoting percentages doesn't explain anything when 35% could be 12 patients. I thought it was clear enough but there's no point in going round another circle. The backlog has nothing at all with "closing the country down for months". The restrictions on our movements reduced the demand for emergency treatment as accidents decreased, so mitigated the impact that Covid itself was having. That was one the points of them. There were contrary implications with people being reluctant to consult for what they felt were minor issues so that they didn't take up resources needed by others. Responsible people do that. Unlike some others. The NHS does indeed exist to provide a service but like any other service, it is not, and can never be a case of providing an unlimited amount via boundless resources. When resources are stretched beyond capacity priorities must be established. If that means dictating what its users must do to avail of a service we all own, so be it.
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 22 Aug 23 12.00pm | |
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Originally posted by eaglesdare
"You're not going to get COVID if you have these vaccinations," Biden said on July 21, 2021. - Pure and simple Misinformation it was not overstatement. Read the other things that were said at the time. Extracting one phrase and quoting it without its context is where the misinformation exists. The same thing could be done with just about any speech, article or book written by anyone. If he, and the health authorities, constantly said the same thing then you would have a bigger point but back then there was much less knowledge than there is now. This is simply straw-grabbing by those eager to try to prove an already discredited idea. The vaccines have been proven to have been an overwhelming success, having saved many lives and are much, much safer than catching Covid itself.
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eaglesdare 22 Aug 23 12.11pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Read the other things that were said at the time. Extracting one phrase and quoting it without its context is where the misinformation exists. The same thing could be done with just about any speech, article or book written by anyone. If he, and the health authorities, constantly said the same thing then you would have a bigger point but back then there was much less knowledge than there is now. This is simply straw-grabbing by those eager to try to prove an already discredited idea. The vaccines have been proven to have been an overwhelming success, having saved many lives and are much, much safer than catching Covid itself. "You're not going to get COVID if you have these vaccinations," Biden July 21 2021. This is still misinformation.
And previously his own staff who had been vaccinated had caught covid. So misinformation.
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georgenorman 22 Aug 23 12.13pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Read the other things that were said at the time. Extracting one phrase and quoting it without its context is where the misinformation exists. The same thing could be done with just about any speech, article or book written by anyone. If he, and the health authorities, constantly said the same thing then you would have a bigger point but back then there was much less knowledge than there is now. This is simply straw-grabbing by those eager to try to prove an already discredited idea. The vaccines have been proven to have been an overwhelming success, having saved many lives and are much, much safer than catching Covid itself. So what was the 'context' of Biden saying: "You're not going to get COVID if you have these vaccinations." Clearly and obviously he said having the vaccination would stop you getting COVID - to pretend otherwise is simply straw-grabbing.
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Teddy Eagle 22 Aug 23 12.28pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
I thought it was clear enough but there's no point in going round another circle. The backlog has nothing at all with "closing the country down for months". The restrictions on our movements reduced the demand for emergency treatment as accidents decreased, so mitigated the impact that Covid itself was having. That was one the points of them. There were contrary implications with people being reluctant to consult for what they felt were minor issues so that they didn't take up resources needed by others. Responsible people do that. Unlike some others. The NHS does indeed exist to provide a service but like any other service, it is not, and can never be a case of providing an unlimited amount via boundless resources. When resources are stretched beyond capacity priorities must be established. If that means dictating what its users must do to avail of a service we all own, so be it. Even when those providing the service don't do the same.
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 22 Aug 23 1.50pm | |
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Originally posted by georgenorman
So what was the 'context' of Biden saying: "You're not going to get COVID if you have these vaccinations." Clearly and obviously he said having the vaccination would stop you getting COVID - to pretend otherwise is simply straw-grabbing. Read the links and you will see it wasn’t said in isolation but as part of a much broader question and answer session.
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 22 Aug 23 1.55pm | |
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Originally posted by eaglesdare
"You're not going to get COVID if you have these vaccinations," Biden July 21 2021. This is still misinformation.
And previously his own staff who had been vaccinated had caught covid. So misinformation. I refer you to my previous answer. There’s no point in me repeating myself even if you continue to. Something you have quite a habit of doing. When you get an idea fixed in your mind I don’t think a tsunami would be able to shift it.
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