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Stirlingsays 20 Nov 21 9.26am | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
BS! What the Second Amendment actually says is:- "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." Unsurprisingly, this is capable of a variety of interpretations and has been argued over by constitutional scholars ever since it was written. So for anyone to claim they know "the entire point" is arrogant nonsense. No-one does. That's the problem. It's not BS at all. Interpretation is a fair point. However this is entirely an American issue. Hell, Democratic states can disarm if they wish to, however they will definitely not succeed in convincing Republicans to do so. It stands alone as the strongest issue, much stronger than healthcare that would split the USA apart.....something that even the nuts in the Democratic leadership are well aware of.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 20 Nov 21 9.37am | |
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Originally posted by Badger11
We have had this argument when Trump was in office and he was losing various court cases over all sorts of things. I pointed out then that US courts are political which is why the the Democrats were cherry picking the court to bring their cases e.g. a court in Hawaii over migrants crossing the border from Mexico when a US border state court would have been more logical.. Any way glad to see that we agree on this point that the courts can be political. The Judge appeared to strongly favour the defence from the outset in the words he banned in his Court. That's political. The idea that the Democrats encourage lawbreaking, which appears among some here to be an established fact, is just more political hyperbole. It's the whole system there which is no longer fit for purpose. That's the one thing that Trump got right. The swamp needs draining, but as most of the dirtiest muck lies on the right side he was never the man to do it. In the end he just made it deeper.
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 20 Nov 21 9.43am | |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
It's not BS at all. Interpretation is a fair point. However this is entirely an American issue. Hell, Democratic states can disarm if they wish to, however they will definitely not succeed in convincing Republicans to do so. It stands alone as the strongest issue, much stronger than healthcare that would split the USA apart.....something that even the nuts in the Democratic leadership are well aware of. The BS is in the claim that the "entire point" of the Second Amendment is to do this, which was what was being replied to:- "gives licence to ordinary US folk to arm themselves and go wading into protests/civil disobediences and shoot people under the pretext of self defence." It just isn't. It's unclear, but it certainly isn't that.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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Teddy Eagle 20 Nov 21 9.45am | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
BS! What the Second Amendment actually says is:- "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." Unsurprisingly, this is capable of a variety of interpretations and has been argued over by constitutional scholars ever since it was written. So for anyone to claim they know "the entire point" is arrogant nonsense. No-one does. That's the problem. Not complicated. Everyone has the right to bear arms. You need a gun to shoot the bear since even John Wayne would have a problem wrestling one.
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Stirlingsays 20 Nov 21 9.48am | |
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WE posted in relation to Biden's commentary on this case but apparently that's not the full picture. It seems the Rittenhouse family are angry with Biden for 'deflaming' Rittenhouse before the trial and connecting him with 'white supremacy'.....whatever the feck that is. I don't know of this but I can certainly concur that most stuff that comes out of his mouth are either lies or extreme distortions of reality to ramp up Democratic activists and supporters. If he tried to use Rittenhouse for political purposes then we will see if a price will be paid for that.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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Stirlingsays 20 Nov 21 9.55am | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
"gives licence to ordinary US folk to arm themselves and go wading into protests/civil disobediences and shoot people under the pretext of self defence." It just isn't. It's unclear, but it certainly isn't that. I think the amendment covers what happened that night. It shouldn't have happened and I think most of us can agree on that. If you introduce a gun into a situation....and there were plenty of guns out there the outcome is rarely proportionate because decisions have to be made quickly often in emotive circumstances. However, when it comes to national policy America is about as far away from agreement on issues like this as it could be.....Distrust and polarisation between Republicans and Democrats is about as high as it can be without violence. So the whole gun argument has no practical relevance in relation to them because nothing's going to change. I certainly wouldn't recommend to anyone in the States to give up arms....the future is too uncertain. Edited by Stirlingsays (20 Nov 2021 9.56am)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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Stirlingsays 20 Nov 21 10.16am | |
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I just also want to make the point that the Democratic media use the full extent of the first amendment rights to propagandize, omit and suggest as fully as they can. The smaller Republican media also do the same. However, what is of full note here is that only one side in this situation wants to restrict free speech.....to change the intent of the first amendment....All in service of their own opinions. All while they hypocritically fully stretch its boundaries every day. Edited by Stirlingsays (20 Nov 2021 10.17am)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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mezzer Main Stand, Block F, Row 20 seat 1... 20 Nov 21 10.53am | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
The trial judge does have something of a reputation, and his rulings during this case did nothing to modify it. I, too, am glad we don't permit the widespread possession of gums. This would not have happened here. It is also my fear that, whatever the truth in this case, that it will encourage the boneheads in the "Proud Boys", and similar movements, to believe they can go shoot a few protestors and claim self defence. I hope I am wrong. Time alone will tell. Next though, wait for some pot stirring by Trump. I agree. Anyone that uses gums to settle a dispute....well, they just suck. Using a stick of Juicy Fruit in a threatening way is pretty cowardly as well.
Living down here does have some advantages. At least you can see them cry. |
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Matov 20 Nov 21 11.10am | |
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Originally posted by mezzer
I agree. Anyone that uses gums to settle a dispute....well, they just suck. I am assuming you mean 'guns'? What if this dispute is a man wanting to have sex with somebody who does not want to have sex with them? Is it ok to use a gun then? Or should they just allow themselves to be raped rather than take measures that could end the life of another?
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell. |
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Forest Hillbilly in a hidey-hole 20 Nov 21 11.20am | |
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Media. It's all b0110x. Opinion is formed and divided by media sources who are already politically-aligned. Just to add, On the night of the shootings, law enforcement officers saw Rittenhouse and other armed people on the streets despite a curfew and gave them bottles of water, with one officer heard saying over a loudspeaker, “We appreciate you guys.” Rittenhouse also spent some time as a youth police cadet.
I disengage, I turn the page. |
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Badger11 Beckenham 20 Nov 21 11.24am | |
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Originally posted by mezzer
I agree. Anyone that uses gums to settle a dispute....well, they just suck. Using a stick of Juicy Fruit in a threatening way is pretty cowardly as well. Stop trying to wrigley out of it.
One more point |
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 20 Nov 21 11.31am | |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
I think the amendment covers what happened that night. It shouldn't have happened and I think most of us can agree on that. If you introduce a gun into a situation....and there were plenty of guns out there the outcome is rarely proportionate because decisions have to be made quickly often in emotive circumstances. However, when it comes to national policy America is about as far away from agreement on issues like this as it could be.....Distrust and polarisation between Republicans and Democrats is about as high as it can be without violence. So the whole gun argument has no practical relevance in relation to them because nothing's going to change. I certainly wouldn't recommend to anyone in the States to give up arms....the future is too uncertain. Edited by Stirlingsays (20 Nov 2021 9.56am) Not if you believe, as many do, that it applies only to legally organised militias, as defined when it was written. So what you think, as a non US citizen, is hardly important. Nor does it address the fact that this kid had no legitimate reason to be there. Had he not been, then 2 people would still have been alive, whether they were killed in self defence or not. This is one of the issues to come out of this trial. The law there only considers the circumstances at the moment the weapon was fired. Not the context of why he was there or why he was carrying a weapon. That, I think, will change.
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