I do think you often fall into the trap of oversimplification. It was never going to be as easy as leave, prosper. If you did think that was the case I don't understand your candyfloss view of the world.

You clearly believe in brexit so much that you've lost all ability to have objective thought. If things continue to go badly because of brexit over the next decade, the only sensible thing to do is consider how things can be improved. That includes moving back towards the EU as well as trying to make it work without doing so. Whatever creates the more positive long term outcome, scientifically, should then be followed. Regardless of emotion, ideology or whatever.

I am with you on economic predictions... complete garbage at the best of times. Doesn't mean the outcome won't still be negative though does it?

We'd only ever go back in if things got really, really bad. And if they did, brexit would have failed anyway, so what choice would there be? Cut ones nose off etc.? That way of thinking would mean you'd be no better than a staunch remainer. Oh the irony

Personally I see them trying to hash this out for a few years, realising that it's not giving them the short to medium term returns they wanted and we will shift back closer, but not back into, the EU. Less worse off, if you will. Tolerable.

Revolution over the EU aint happening. The only chance of one is if things go badly, as above. And it'll be a revolution to ensure we go back in.

Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.

That's what happens when you play the passport game. He was born in America of Irish (Possibly NI Parents) grew up in Ireland and England had a British passport but then took out German Citizenship. The High Court and Appeals court decided that although he never took out British Citizenship as he had a British passport that qualified him.

An odious man got his just desserts comparing him to Nigel Farage is like comparing Corbyn to Stalin ridiculous.

One more point

I don't understand the term hard Brexit. We voted to leave so that our Parliament would decide our laws after that it is up to Parliament and the electorate to decide what type of country we become.

The issue for me about the single market for instance was the insistence by the EU that those rules also governed our trading with non EU countries. In other words they would dictate our trading policy with the rest of the world.

If the EU had said yes you can stay in the single market but are free to do business elsewhere I would have been quite happy to stay in the SM.

So for me there is no such thing as a hard Brexit it's in or out and we voted accordingly.

PS I forgot to mention the concept of hard and soft Brexit only really emerged after the referendum when the politicians started talking about it as a way of delaying and backtracking .

For us voters it was in or out.

Edited by Badger11 (14 Feb 2023 5.50pm)

One more point

Which works if you accept that Brexit was a zero-sum game in which the only way of defining it is by the economic criteria specifically defined by a Leave wishing Establishment.

Just the intervention alone of Covid and the impact that had globally skews any and every kind of rational measure.

Now I would make the argument that Brexit has never fully happened due to the political establishment dragging its feet but that points specifically to a political crisis.

The British people voted to leave the EU. Not only in 2016 but then in 2019 in both the European elections and then a general election which were won by political parties campaigning on a very specific campaign of us leaving. If our establishment institutions then refuse to implement that as effectively as possible, as I believe is very much the case, then the fault lays not with Brexit but rather the supposedly public servants who are meant to implement the will of the electorate.

It is blindingly obvious to me that we are heading back into it, by hook or by crook. And then the fun and games begin. Because it does not go away. It dominates everything and I suspect will potentially lead to the emergence of a distinct English political identity. Which takes us into very, very unknown waters.

Stabbed in the back political narratives very rarely end without tears being shed.

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

On nail head
Also wissie has constantly posted about his whole brethren agreeing with him. One wonders why every single one thought brexit was bad. My kids asked me and all I said was are you ok with where you are. So we all voted remain on that. Subsequently every one of them has regretted that vote on their own thoughts and self education. Are they stupid or just seeing the eu for the absolute shower it is.

Edited by cryrst (14 Feb 2023 7.37pm)

The eu need us for our money and our open border for the cock up they have made about said immigration policy. Feck em, they are trying to make it harder but Ireland is on the verge of turning and that is really the marker to our stubbornness having an effect.