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Ukraine Situation - Should We Be Worried?
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 becky  over the moon 24 Mar 22 9.47am |
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Originally posted by Slimey Toad
Fair enough. I will put two pencils up my nostrils and go 'wibble'. Maximum effect can be achieved if you also put your underpants on your head whilst doing this....
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 silvertop Portishead 24 Mar 22 5.04pm |
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Originally posted by Mapletree
And what the feck does syrup mean in your tiny brain. Is it like when you called me Karen? No way do you bear a grudge. PS can I call you Karen?
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The groover  Danbury 24 Mar 22 8.05pm |
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Originally posted by Tim Gypsy Hill '64
Yes, so it's not surprising that Putin has played on that. It is a fact that can be overemphasised on a population who are fed propaganda. The people of Russia were shunned by Ukraine during WWII, this has caused most of the friction between them. And it is relatively easy to play on a nation's paranoia when they know such facts. Much like the propaganda everyone in this country, and the West in general, sucks up about the conflict now. It's really not all true. All wars are illegal. War is terrible. People die. Hospitals and schools get damaged in the cross fire. It's never one sided. I have to take exception to most of this. The Azov battalion totals 2500. Hardly a massive right wing presence in a country of 40m. The people of Russia were not 'shunned' by the Ukrainians, they never had time to 'shun' anyone. The Nazi's invaded Ukraine first. They went from soviet repression to Nazi repression. The soviets adopted a scorched earth policy and destroyed Ukraine's industry and agriculture as they retreated. Ukraine was instantly pulled apart and its people repressed worse than when the the soviets controlled them. Some 5m were killed. Then when the soviets returned they continued that repression where they had left off. The idea that the Ukrainians created the problems between Ukraine and Russia is simply not true and is in fact laughable. You then state that people are sucking up western propaganda about the current situation, and state its not true. Maybe look in a mirror on that one. Are the live images we see of Ukrainian hospitals, schools, houses and blocks of flats being flattened all western staged propaganda? Laughable.
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| Tim Gypsy Hill '64 Stoke sub normal 25 Mar 22 12.19am |
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Originally posted by The groover
I have to take exception to most of this. The Azov battalion totals 2500. Hardly a massive right wing presence in a country of 40m. The people of Russia were not 'shunned' by the Ukrainians, they never had time to 'shun' anyone. The Nazi's invaded Ukraine first. They went from soviet repression to Nazi repression. The soviets adopted a scorched earth policy and destroyed Ukraine's industry and agriculture as they retreated. Ukraine was instantly pulled apart and its people repressed worse than when the the soviets controlled them. Some 5m were killed. Then when the soviets returned they continued that repression where they had left off. The idea that the Ukrainians created the problems between Ukraine and Russia is simply not true and is in fact laughable. You then state that people are sucking up western propaganda about the current situation, and state its not true. Maybe look in a mirror on that one. Are the live images we see of Ukrainian hospitals, schools, houses and blocks of flats being flattened all western staged propaganda? Laughable.
I posted most of what you mention in a previous post. However, you neglect the fact that the Soviet Holodomor preceded the nazi invasion. I didn't state that that Ukraine created the problem, or that all the news is not true. Propaganda happens during wars. All you see and read is not necessarily true.
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| Stirlingsays 25 Mar 22 11.42am |
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I'm hearing....and I place no certainty in anything at the moment that 4 of the 6 required agreements have been reached. Somewhat agreed on: Remaining topics:
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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ASCPFC  Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 25 Mar 22 2.49pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
I'm hearing....and I place no certainty in anything at the moment that 4 of the 6 required agreements have been reached. Somewhat agreed on: Remaining topics: If the Ukrainians are winning they're not going to hand over any territory. Worryingly, Putin will know this.
Red and Blue Army! |
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| Stirlingsays 25 Mar 22 3.02pm |
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Originally posted by ASCPFC
If the Ukrainians are winning they're not going to hand over any territory. Worryingly, Putin will know this. It's hard to know what the actual truth is, war being what war is. If you don't have air superiority or at least contest it I don't think it's possible to really 'win' as such. However, it is possible to damage and wear down at great cost. In my view, from the subtext of reports, we may well see Russia focus mainly on the Donbas and once they take what they want in East Ukraine retreat behind its lines. I'm just spitballing here but If they don't get a peace agreement where they get recognition of Crimea and the Donbas they may threaten or actually tactically low yield nuke Keiv. Man, let's hope that's not what happens. I pray to god that we get peace soon and that this madness ends.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| BlueJay UK 25 Mar 22 5.32pm |
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Originally posted by ASCPFC
If the Ukrainians are winning they're not going to hand over any territory. Worryingly, Putin will know this. It certainly appears to be the case that Russia's invasion has not gone to plan. Humiliating for them really. The amount of 'woe is me' that comes from the Kremlin as they bomb their neighbour is quite something. Putin is likely at the stage where a token 'win' is the best case, and as is stated, a route to peace. He must be concerned about the possibility of being offed or ousted if this is perceived as a total disaster and needs something to keep the public on side. All in all, a strategic disaster, and the consequence of 'yes men' afraid to give an honest appraisal. The idea of Ukraine agreeing to disarm seems like a non starter though, unless it's achieved in such a way that somehow still gives them the ability to defend themselves against Russian aggression. Hard to give up the Mariupol area too, considering the theatre bombing etc. Much may come down to whether Ukranian forces continue with their recent push-back successes in some areas. In any case, Putin is clearly putting the exit ramp in place, and their media is so controlled they may be able to convince the populous that they've gained something ('denazification' complete!) even if that's barely or even not the case. Edited by BlueJay (25 Mar 2022 7.18pm)
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| Grumbles 25 Mar 22 7.23pm |
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Putin declaring Phase one over. They did not meet their objectives, now consolidating on capture of Dombas to declare a victory on the more limited objective.
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| Mapletree Croydon 25 Mar 22 11.18pm |
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I dont. Stirling is Stirling. You can call me what you like Violet.
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| BlueJay UK 27 Mar 22 2.54am |
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Originally posted by Grumbles
Putin declaring Phase one over. They did not meet their objectives, now consolidating on capture of Dombas to declare a victory on the more limited objective. He's trying to dress up a disaster in a positive light. Putin's position has never been so perilous. If he doesn't get a token victory exactly what use is he to his people. people that he already diminishes and silences in multiple ways. He's set them back decades.
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| silvertop Portishead 28 Mar 22 10.26am |
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Originally posted by BlueJay
He's trying to dress up a disaster in a positive light. Putin's position has never been so perilous. If he doesn't get a token victory exactly what use is he to his people. people that he already diminishes and silences in multiple ways. He's set them back decades. Trouble is, the flow of information in Russia is so controlled, they have no idea. If this narrative goes in the direction currently predicted, Russian troops will leave Ukraine having annexed Donbas but having been roundly humiliated elsewhere and leaving a city with the population of Manchester in rubble. Sale to the people will be they have liberated the native Russians in Donbas, consolidated their hold in Crimea, de-nazified Ukraine and forced them to agree to abasing terms on security and alliances. The problem they have is returning troops who will not confirm that story. However, it will be like those coming back from Nam. Initially the population will vilify anyone who complains as traitors and cowards and the truth will only out years later when it doesn't matter.
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