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The Brexit Thread (LOCKED)

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Maine Eagle Flag USA 02 Apr 19 6.02pm Send a Private Message to Maine Eagle Add Maine Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays


Shame that this can't be your general policy in life isn't it.

Hrolf's decision is binary and is immediately implementable.

Unlike some others.

But we are really flogging a dead horse now, Stirlingsays.

A cat just got let into number 10 about 20 seconds ago, this could be the deadlock breaker.

 


Trump lost. Badly. Hahahahahahaha.

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Matov Flag 02 Apr 19 6.15pm Send a Private Message to Matov Add Matov as a friend

Utter and despicable cowardice of the highest order. May has not only effectively destroyed Brexit, she is allowing Corbyn into number 10.

Maybe this is now the time to just accept that the UK is finished. Done and dusted. We voted to Leave. We should have left. Instead this.

I thought my disgust with our political class could not grow anymore intense but now...beyond vomit inducing. The ERG & DUP need to crash this Government. Fight a GE on no deal v Capitulation.

 


"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

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Maine Eagle Flag USA 02 Apr 19 6.15pm Send a Private Message to Maine Eagle Add Maine Eagle as a friend

Theresa May's big speech just now:

Article 50 will be extended to avoid no deal.

She is basically pinning her hopes on Parliament once again, and hoping she can get on the same page as Corbyn, and then they can BOTH force her WA through parliament.

So that means bye bye red lines, hello customs union, hello hard brexiteer resignations.

She still thinks the house of commons can fix this sh&t. Not sure about that one.

 


Trump lost. Badly. Hahahahahahaha.

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Matov Flag 02 Apr 19 6.20pm Send a Private Message to Matov Add Matov as a friend

The Conservative Party have to force a GE. It is as simple as that. May is destroying the country and if the DUP and ERG swallow this, then they will both be the biggest losers.

 


"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

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Maine Eagle Flag USA 02 Apr 19 6.23pm Send a Private Message to Maine Eagle Add Maine Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Matov

Utter and despicable cowardice of the highest order. May has not only effectively destroyed Brexit, she is allowing Corbyn into number 10.

Maybe this is now the time to just accept that the UK is finished. Done and dusted. We voted to Leave. We should have left. Instead this.

I thought my disgust with our political class could not grow anymore intense but now...beyond vomit inducing. The ERG & DUP need to crash this Government. Fight a GE on no deal v Capitulation.

I can understand your frustration.

She basically just ruled out there ever being a no deal exit, and is going to try to pass her WA based on labour votes. Weird times.

I agree with her on no deal though, it cannot be allowed.

So her solution to months on end of parliamentary indecision, is.............more talking in parliament.

She wants to hold hands with Corbyn and force her WA through with him standing beside her. Can that actually happen in real terms?

If that doesnt work, its more indicative votes I think she said.

More of the same.

 


Trump lost. Badly. Hahahahahahaha.

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steeleye20 Flag Croydon 02 Apr 19 6.26pm Send a Private Message to steeleye20 Add steeleye20 as a friend

Originally posted by Maine Eagle

I can understand your frustration.

She basically just ruled out there ever being a no deal exit, and is going to try to pass her WA based on labour votes. Weird times.

I agree with her on no deal though, it cannot be allowed.

So her solution to months on end of parliamentary indecision, is.............more talking in parliament.

She wants to hold hands with Corbyn and force her WA through with him standing beside her. Can that actually happen in real terms?

If that doesnt work, its more indicative votes I think she said.

More of the same.

Very dubious she has nowhere else to go?

 

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Willo Flag South coast - west of Brighton. 02 Apr 19 6.27pm Send a Private Message to Willo Add Willo as a friend

Originally posted by Matov

Utter and despicable cowardice of the highest order. May has not only effectively destroyed Brexit, she is allowing Corbyn into number 10.

Maybe this is now the time to just accept that the UK is finished. Done and dusted. We voted to Leave. We should have left. Instead this.

I thought my disgust with our political class could not grow anymore intense but now...beyond vomit inducing. The ERG & DUP need to crash this Government. Fight a GE on no deal v Capitulation.

Matov

I share your abhorence of the stance taken by Theresa May.
I suspect there will be a real fallout from this affecting my Conservative party.
Disappointing and disgusting.

 

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Maine Eagle Flag USA 02 Apr 19 6.29pm Send a Private Message to Maine Eagle Add Maine Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Matov

The Conservative Party have to force a GE. It is as simple as that. May is destroying the country and if the DUP and ERG swallow this, then they will both be the biggest losers.

The ERG and brexiteers will be up in arms about this. If a customs union comes in that is something the DUP can perhaps get on board with.

Who knows what those ERG folks and hardlines will do now though.

 


Trump lost. Badly. Hahahahahahaha.

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Invalid user 2019 Flag 02 Apr 19 6.31pm

Originally posted by Matov

Utter and despicable cowardice of the highest order. May has not only effectively destroyed Brexit, she is allowing Corbyn into number 10.

Maybe this is now the time to just accept that the UK is finished. Done and dusted. We voted to Leave. We should have left. Instead this.

May is determined in her approach, but has been in headless chicken mode all along with this plan that has little appeal with parliament or the public. In retrospect it was at the time of the leadership contest that those with the loudest voices should've stepped up. Boris talked the talk, then looked like he'd shat himself when the the referendum result was announced. He pussied out and put his wait and see political ambitions above that of the nation. Nothing new there.

With someone actually interested in bringing about Brexit, we wouldn't have had this crap withdrawal bill, and separate future relationship aspect for a start. The EU saw that May was weak on the very idea of Brexit and took advantage of that. I respect the woman for not buckling even though she's being attacked from all sides, but realistically she shouldn't have been leading the party to begin with. I wouldn't go as far as to say that Brexit is destroyed. It's just wildly swinging this way and that. It's a serious matter turned into a political pantomime.

 

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Willo Flag South coast - west of Brighton. 02 Apr 19 6.33pm Send a Private Message to Willo Add Willo as a friend

Originally posted by Maine Eagle

The ERG and brexiteers will be up in arms about this. If a customs union comes in that is something the DUP can perhaps get on board with.

Who knows what those ERG folks and hardlines will do now though.

I'm a brexiteer and fully support the ERG and I am spitting feathers.
This is NOT the Brexit people voted for and the Conservative Party could well pay a price at a General Election.
Begging to Corbyn to bail her out of the mess.

 

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Matov Flag 02 Apr 19 6.34pm Send a Private Message to Matov Add Matov as a friend

Originally posted by Willo

Matov

I share your abhorence of the stance taken by Theresa May.
I suspect there will be a real fallout from this affecting my Conservative party.
Disappointing and disgusting.

The Conservatives are dead and buried, as things stand. If she is allowed to go to Brussels next week and request an extension then they are finished. They have to act and they have to act in the next 24 hours. Her proposal needs to be nipped in the bud or else it is over for them. Corbyn must be laughing his head off at the moment.

He gets to be the saviour of Brexit whilst as the same time effectively keeping us in all of its institutions as rule takers.

Soft Brexit is nothing but s***e Brexit. We actually are better off remaining inside. No two ways about it.

What on earth is the mental old cow playing out? Beyond comprehension. Better to take a risk in a GE, playing the no-deal card then allow what is about to happen play out.

 


"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

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blackheatheagle Flag Beckenham 02 Apr 19 6.37pm Send a Private Message to blackheatheagle Add blackheatheagle as a friend

Although i agree that it is frustrating that manifestos / promises before referendum seem to be withdrawn, i don`t like the idea of voting = democracy equation. I am confident with it as i see this `voting = democracy` is trendy terminology in my home country where it is far away from being a democratic country On paper, yes, it is democratic and there are elections. Enough? No.

I can also confirm that my home country lost huge portion of democratic elements just because of 2 referendums happened in last 9 years due to winners` outcome

(For the ones who wonder which country it is. Hint: It was one of the country which Brexit Campaigners was using to threaten British public and it was false alarm for sure)

There are lots of dynamics which run the democracy, including courts, media (which support all views), civil groups who are free to express themselves, political parties for minorities (i don`t mean ethnic minorities, i mean from political view perspective), freedom to criticize rulers, government etc

Actions to revert referendum or its possible results will not be a gravestone for democracy in UK, this can only be a dent (still reasonable concern for sure, i accept that). Because so far the way it progressed actually followed various of democratic steps.

- Conservatives had a promising manifesto and commitment that they will run a referendum and respect the result.
- They were cracked inside (remember the day Boris Johnson said he will support leave and Pound was crushed) and there was a row between both side `without a plan`
- Leave won.

**A break here. If there is a referendum, there should be a clear ruler & plan for the outcome. Cameron resigned and expectation was for Mr Gove and Johnson who run leave campaign to deliver the result. It was their commitment, but this didn`t happen and never a leave campaigner was on the wheel.**

- May won the Conservatives leadership. This is where deviation starts. Winners (i don`t like to name elections like footballs games but i will not be fussy) should take the lead to deliver but Conservatives didn`t want this. I`d underscore the fact that it is a bit weird that i don`t see Brexiteers targeting Brexit campaigners for betrayal? They run the campaign, should be liable to deliver but even couldn`t take the lead. Is this an excuse that they couldn`t take the lead? Sounds naive.

- Then we have Gina Miller who went to court and pushed the government for a meaningful vote. Like the result or not but this seems to be a good democratic sample that a government who has enough power in parliament had to obey to the court.

- May placed a bet for General Election and lost. Well, it seems to be another democratic step that public was `not so happy` the way Conservatives handle this situation including nominating May to deliver Brexit?

So, interestingly on paper this last 2 items seem to be main root cause of deadlock now.

What will happen next?

I can see the votes indicate that Custom Unions will be leading option as EU now needs a clear proposal for an extension.

As long as free movement concerns & free trading concerns are somehow addressed under Custom Unions umbrella, there will not (and should not be) need for a second referendum which will really make all upcoming voting process a bit funny.

Only if this roadmap has another deadlock, then that may be inevitable but it is unlikely.

Edited by blackheatheagle (02 Apr 2019 6.38pm)

Edited by blackheatheagle (02 Apr 2019 6.39pm)

 

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